Yenn Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 I just downloaded the Flight Safety magazine from CASA. It is no easier to follow than our own Sport Pilot. Even though I don't like online magazines, this one has a lot of good stuff. I did the quiz and I believe it is done to try o trick you. I reckon I have a pretty good grasp of rlying theory, but can't work out this question. On the approach at an aerodrome where the sea breeze and gradient wind are from opposite directions. there is a tendency to:- a Overshoot due to tailwind early on final b Undershoot due to tailwind early on final c Overshoot due to tailwind late on final d Undershoot due to tailwind late on final Can you work out the correct answer? Supposedly the sea breeze is encountered in the lower layers, so there would be a tail wind due to gradient wind in the approach. Making a correct I wonder if they just try to make it difficult or did they just not put runway direction in by mistake. Or am I completely stupid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff13 Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 My guess would be A. But then I could be wrong. The windsock should tell you what is happening close to the ground, ie.(late final). So if you are going by the windsock you should have a headwind on late final so that assumes from the question that early final would give you a tail wind. Only ever having landed once with a tailwind I can remember using every bit of runway available so I am assuming that a tailwind would cause me to overshoot and it would be early final as I would be landing into the wind on late final thanks to Mr Wind Sock. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyflyer Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Agree with Geoff that it is A. A sea breeze is a low level wind so the runway choice made by looking at the windsock would be into the sea breeze. When turning final you are still high and the gradient wind is from behind. This means you are going at a faster ground speed than expected and will have less time to lose the height and find yourself higher than expected as you get closer to the runway. Once you get into the sea breeze the situation will improve but you may still be too high. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zibi Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Well, lets go through the whole scenario: 1. Are you aware you will have tail wind on early final (you should be able to judge it, as you've been flying in it before landing): a) yes - you extend the downwind leg to compensate for the tail wind, and in that case you're going to undershoot it because of the headwind lower b) yes, but you also notice the windsock on the ground pointing in the opposite direction, so you do a normal base turn and anticipate the wind shift so land spot on c) no, so you make an early base turn to compensate for the headwind - you end up overshooting it 2. Let's assume you made the base turn as if there was no wind, and now you're on final with tail wind: a) you continue an approach with your usual descent rate, you find yourself too high, and then when you hit the headwind, you have much higher airspeed, you you'd start climbing - overshoot (I'd guess this would be strange and unusual behaviour) b) you compensate for the tail wind with a steeper descent rate, once you hit the headwind you'd end up undershooting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyflyer Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 It's not that hard! If you're high, power off, more flaps and sideslip if necessary. If you're low add power. If you stuff it up go around and compensate for what caused you to stuff up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 I just downloaded the Flight Safety magazine from CASA.It is no easier to follow than our own Sport Pilot. Even though I don't like online magazines, this one has a lot of good stuff. I did the quiz and I believe it is done to try o trick you. I reckon I have a pretty good grasp of rlying theory, but can't work out this question. On the approach at an aerodrome where the sea breeze and gradient wind are from opposite directions. there is a tendency to:- a Overshoot due to tailwind early on final b Undershoot due to tailwind early on final c Overshoot due to tailwind late on final d Undershoot due to tailwind late on final Can you work out the correct answer? Supposedly the sea breeze is encountered in the lower layers, so there would be a tail wind due to gradient wind in the approach. Making a correct I wonder if they just try to make it difficult or did they just not put runway direction in by mistake. Or am I completely stupid That's too easy mate,. . . . I reckon it's "e" Find another coastal airfield up the road which has a much longer runway Sorted. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted July 11, 2015 Author Share Posted July 11, 2015 I still cannot see how they come to any conclusion. The runway direction is not given. If runway is into the sea breeze, then you could undershoot. If runway is opposite sea breeze, then you would tend to overshoot.If runway is at 90deg to both winds you will not have a tail, nor head wind, but would still tend to undershoot. I really cannot see a problem as we always have to adjust for wind changes during the approach, but this is pure theory and I don't know what their theory is. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff13 Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 I still cannot see how they come to any conclusion. The runway direction is not given. If runway is into the sea breeze, then you could undershoot. If runway is opposite sea breeze, then you would tend to overshoot.If runway is at 90deg to both winds you will not have a tail, nor head wind, but would still tend to undershoot.I really cannot see a problem as we always have to adjust for wind changes during the approach, but this is pure theory and I don't know what their theory is. The question itself gives the answer to that point. In these types of tests you always accept that one answer will always be correct or at least more correct than all of the others. In this instance as there is no option for crosswind effects on the landing then we must assume that the runway is in the direction of one of the winds. I know it does not spell out the exact details as we would expect them but as I see it this question is legitimate and answerable and would be acceptable in any Tafe oriented examination. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 To my mind the question may be legitimate, but it is definitely not answerable. I have found several times that it is not a good idea to assume anything and so far as TAFE exams go they can be ridiculous. I once did an electrical exam to allow me to go onto Qld Rail property as an SES member. I got one question wrong, but when I pointed out to the QR safety expert, that my answer was correct and the supposedly correct one was wrong, he agreed and said the question would be changed. It was just a matter of wording, but everyone assumed the question meant what it did not state. Luckily I never had to go into QR property for the SES, but when they crashed the tilt train just N of Bundaberg it could have happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdseye Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Common causes of badly composed questions are the 'closeness' of the person to the subject and the literacy level of the writer. A question should be phrased in a way that makes sense to a person regardless of their level of knowledge of the subject matter. Literacy is an increasing problem, as shown by the appalling grammar seen in mainstream media reporting these days. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherk Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Common causes of badly composed ..........Literacy is an increasing problem, Illiteracy is a bigger problem....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdseye Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Illiteracy is a bigger problem....... OK, "Poor literacy is an............" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wjohnmid Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Sea breeze is cool,land breeze is warm ,answer should be ©. Ask a sailor. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 OK, "Poor literacy is an............" Thats' easy for you to sya. ( oops,.. . .sorry, My iPhone uses vindictive text. . . . ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdseye Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Thats' easy for you to sya. ( oops,.. . .sorry, My iPhone uses vindictive text. . . . ) Its wot oi fink, innit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kununurra Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Off topic I guess but here goes anyway Yenn why would the SES need to do an electrical exam to enter QR rail or any other property? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdseye Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Off topic I guess but here goes anyway Yenn why would the SES need to do an electrical exam to enter QR rail or any other property? Presumably because it is an overhead electric line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultralights Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 the situation described in the question is a quite common occurrence at bankstown during warm days and almost daily during summer, about 2 to 3 pm, the sea breeze will eventually reach bankstown, and the runway direction is then changed to 11, so when your approaching from the west, at 1500 ft, you are still in the gradient wind, usually from the west, and you then descend into the sea breeze at about 500 ft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kununurra Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Presumably because it is an overhead electric line. I assumed that it would be an emergency and that is why the SES is there hence no need for any exam they would be covered under legislation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted July 19, 2015 Author Share Posted July 19, 2015 It was all about the high voltage lines used to power the trains. The question was something along the lines of "What do you have to do to be able to work on the high voltage lines" My answer was that you cannot work on the HV lines, because they have to be disconnected from the supply and also earthed out, so they are not HV lines. The correct answer was get the power disconnected and the lines earthed. The reason for the SES maybe needing to be near the HV lines was if we had to work on a derailment or fire. In case of fire we were told it was perfectly safe to spray water onto burning wagons and over the HV lines. Having had a kick from spraying water over an electric fence I was not going to believe them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kununurra Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Yenn would your emergency services act not give you an expemption as it does for many other things 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zibi Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Yenn would your emergency services act not give you an expemption as it does for many other things Exemption from getting electrocuted? Those exams are not to keep people out, but rather to keep them safe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kununurra Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Zibi The exemption refers to legislation and or an act of parliament that covers emergency service workers in times when they need to perform their roles. So maybe you should read it and get back to me hey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDQDI Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Kununurra I don't know the regs well enough to factually comment but i will have a go anyway:-) It should be covered by the act but it seems (IMHO or in my experience) that some places are a law unto themselves (main one that comes to mind is mine sights) We (our local rescue squad) got to have a guided tour of a local mine which was quite (ok Dazza I get quiet and quite mixed up quite often!) interesting but I got the impression that we wouldn't be aloud to perform too many rescues there, I could have interpreted it wrong but it seems like they would rather wait for the mines rescue team (at that time they were stationed in the hunter, I'm not sure if they have another team now that Narrabri ect has got more active)to get there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted July 20, 2015 Author Share Posted July 20, 2015 I am not in SES now, gave up because of too much bovine excreta. There were exemptions, but they only worked when an emergency was declared. That was one of my reasons for leaving. I could train but had to comply with every rule. Declare an emergency and I could be working with people who had no experience of the real world. The QR course was to keep us safe as without knowledge of the dangers it would be too easy to die. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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