Another NEW Savannah S on it's way in NZ

[IBob]

I thought that the extended baggage area was at the expense of a parachute? I would be interested to see how the two fit? For those hard to get to holes a small child on a stick may help...

That is correct, I think: the extended baggage area is at the expense of the parachute (and comes with a piece of skin to cover the parachute hatches in the top skin).

 

As for those hard to get holes, I was actually wanting to mount the authors of the manual on a stick.......

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

I am about to fit a chute to a extended baggage area. Its not a issue really. Just need 2 vertical rails to support the chute fitted as if there was a wall there then run a very light guage alu sheet cover front and rear of the chute to make sure its covered. I am in the process right now of trying to get the legal stuff done to import a "dangerous goods" import. All my straps have already been fitted when I built the aircraft. I will post pictures when the chute finally arrives

 

 

[eightyknots]

I am about to fit a chute to a extended baggage area. Its not a issue really. Just need 2 vertical rails to support the chute fitted as if there was a wall there then run a very light guage alu sheet cover front and rear of the chute to make sure its covered. I am in the process right now of trying to get the legal stuff done to import a "dangerous goods" import. All my straps have already been fitted when I built the aircraft. I will post pictures when the chute finally arrives

Hi Mark, I look forward to seeing more of this chute being fitted.

 

 

[IBob]

Back into it here after a couple of months of work getting in the way.

 

Question:

 

My torque tube has a dogleg, with integral pivot point for what I assume is the elevator horn.

 

I am guessing this is an 'improvement', and I can see the edge of it in a couple of build pics provided with the kit.

 

The manual, however, details the older arrangement, where the elevator horn is mounted to a bracket that attached to the fuse bottom and the back of the seat panel. It does not show this newer arrangement, either in construction or in the exploded diagrams.

 

I expect I can muddle through, but I read somewhere that while flight is possible without ailerons or rudder, it becomes more difficult without elevator. So I'm fairly keen to get it right!

 

Does anyone have pics or instructions for this bit?

 

Thank you...

 

 

[dan tonner]

Back into it here after a couple of months of work getting in the way.Question:

 

My torque tube has a dogleg, with integral pivot point for what I assume is the elevator horn.

 

I am guessing this is an 'improvement', and I can see the edge of it in a couple of build pics provided with the kit.

 

The manual, however, details the older arrangement, where the elevator horn is mounted to a bracket that attached to the fuse bottom and the back of the seat panel. It does not show this newer arrangement, either in construction or in the exploded diagrams.

 

I expect I can muddle through, but I read somewhere that while flight is possible without ailerons or rudder, it becomes more difficult without elevator. So I'm fairly keen to get it right!

 

Does anyone have pics or instructions for this bit?

 

Thank you...

Hi Bob,

Are these any help? I was unaware of any changes to the "S" model.

 

Fly Safely,

 

Dan

 

 

 

 

[IBob]

Hi Bob,Are these any help? I was unaware of any changes to the "S" model.

Fly Safely,

 

Dan

Thanks Dan, yes, them's the bits.

Okay, my manual is dated Dec 2014 on those pages, and shows a bare torque tube with no dogleg, and a completely separate aluminium structure, made up of 5 or so parts, straddling the torque tube to carry the elevator horn. And no less than 8 pages of instructions to build and fit this structure. It mounts between the back of the seat back panel and the floor. None of which bits I have.

 

So maybe this is a more recent innovation, and I have a new manual but the old bits?

 

I have also been trying to find Jig and Jig2, required to drill some extra holes in the torque tube tunnel for the adjustable seat setup.

 

Seem not to have them either.

 

Anyone know what they look like, please?

 

 

[IBob]

Question for XL and S builders: I'm looking at the SS assemblies that bolt into the ends of the undercarriage tunnel (to clamp the undercarriage and take the ends of the struts).

 

At present, it would be impossible to line up the bolt holes to the fuselage side skin without some major modification of the tunnel shape.

 

Does anyone have any tips or tricks for fitting these?

 

Thanks.

 

 

[Guy s]

Question for XL and S builders: I'm looking at the SS assemblies that bolt into the ends of the undercarriage tunnel (to clamp the undercarriage and take the ends of the struts).At present, it would be impossible to line up the bolt holes to the fuselage side skin without some major modification of the tunnel shape.

Does anyone have any tips or tricks for fitting these?

 

Thanks.

I had exactly the same problem and posted what you posted and was told by the guru to get brutal so I did, eventually I got it to fit but Crikey it wasn't easy and a few times I had to walked away for a day to recollect Lol and then come back to it to persevere. I used large multi grips with a hollow pipe on the handle to get leverage and twisted the SS to get the holes to line up.

 

It was doable but Crikey and good luck

 

 

[IBob]

I had exactly the same problem and posted what you posted and was told by the guru to get brutal so I did, eventually I got it to fit but Crikey it wasn't easy and a few times I had to walked away for a day to recollect Lol and then come back to it to persevere. I used large multi grips with a hollow pipe on the handle to get leverage and twisted the SS to get the holes to line up.It was doable but Crikey and good luck

Thanks, Guy. That confirms what we are seeing here on two different builds: I was wondering if we had incorrect or 'bad' parts.

I'm not quite up to fitting them yet, so it'll give me time to think...which, in my case, often turns out to be a good idea...)

 

 

[IBob]

I had exactly the same problem and posted what you posted and was told by the guru to get brutal so I did, eventually I got it to fit but Crikey it wasn't easy and a few times I had to walked away for a day to recollect Lol and then come back to it to persevere. I used large multi grips with a hollow pipe on the handle to get leverage and twisted the SS to get the holes to line up.It was doable but Crikey and good luck

Just to be clear, then: you first installed and tightened the bolts in the tunnel, then levered the fitting, as described, to get the holes in the fuselage side to line up?

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

I think I had to be a bit brutal with mine as well....I will let you know as I have to replace the ones in Mabel

 

 

[IBob]

I think I had to be a bit brutal with mine as well....I will let you know as I have to replace the ones in Mabel

I studied your build thread here, Mark....one set of pics the fittings are not there, next set they are, I don't think you commented on them at the time.

While some stages in the assembly look difficult but go well, with a bit of thought, patience and wriggling......this looks like something that could do with some factory improvement.

 

Are you replacing the tunnel as well???

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

On Mabel I have to replace both as they are quite bent..Danny had a spare 2 so I got them from him. I will not use the rivets though I am going to use dome head SS bolts for the hole area around the saddles. I have yet to see what it will fit like once I get the old ones out. I am pretty sure I had the channel just clecoed in when I fitted the saddles on the XL that may have made it easier

 

 

[IBob]

On Mabel I have to replace both as they are quite bent..Danny had a spare 2 so I got them from him. I will not use the rivets though I am going to use dome head SS bolts for the hole area around the saddles. I have yet to see what it will fit like once I get the old ones out. I am pretty sure I had the channel just clecoed in when I fitted the saddles on the XL that may have made it easier

It looks to be the rear of the tunnel that crowds the saddle.

One suggestion seems to be to leave the last half dozen rear tunnel end rivets out while fitting the saddle.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

I HAD LOTS AND LOTS OF CLECOS FOR MY BUILD...I BASICALLY HAd everything clecoed BEFORE oops sorry abt the caps....I had it all clecoed together in most places then did the riveting

 

The problem with typing then looking at what you typed...its a bad habit of mine

 

 

[Guy s]

I did have the bolts done up in the tunnel but ended up taking 2 of them out and lining the holes on the fuse first, it was the only way I could get the holes to line up on the fuselage and the tunnel bolts weren't really a problem afterwards.

 

 

[IBob]

Thanks, Mark & Guy....i'll be having a crack at this in the next couple of weeks...I look forward with interest.....)

 

 

[eightyknots]

Thanks, Mark & Guy....i'll be having a crack at this in the next couple of weeks...I look forward with interest.....)

Hi Bob, I hope that this difficult part ultimately 'falls into place' with ease.

 

 

[dan tonner]

Just to be clear, then: you first installed and tightened the bolts in the tunnel, then levered the fitting, as described, to get the holes in the fuselage side to line up?

Hi Bob;

Remember my build was an XL VG but I do recall an issue with one of the SS strut-to-fuselage fitting during my build. Essentially, the bolt and rivet holes in the fitting that attach to the left and right sides of the cabin frame all aligned perfectly; BUT, of the 5 bolt holes (2 front side, 3 rear side) in the "fingers" that reach into the tunnel, the two front side holes - on the left side strut-to-fuselage fitting only - did not line up with the holes in the channel. (The right side strut-to-fuselage fitting caused no grief and all 11 bolt holes aligned properly.)

 

The two fittings (left and right side) did not look like mirror images of one another - the two bolt holes in the front "finger" on the left side fitting were not centered in the finger; the bolt holes in the "fingers" of the right side fitting were centered.

 

To correct the issue, I bolted the strut fitting to the side of the fuselage, marked the hole alignment using the holes in the mainspring channel, then removed the strut fitting, re-drilled the holes and used epoxy to fill the original holes. (pictures attached)

 

This may not be the issue you are facing, but it did indicate to me that the strut-to-fuselage fittings on my build did not live up to the same tolerances to which the rest of the components were blessed. Perhaps that part is still not sorted - the fittings appear to be individually fabricated and perhaps are not up to CNC tolerances.

 

All the best to you, Leigh and Peter; you each contributed great memories of a wonderful New Zealand visit. We're back home and excited about the Nova Scotia Spring. Perhaps someday, should you visit my neck of the woods, we can return your warm hospitality.

 

Dan

 

 

 

 

 

 

[IBob]

Hi Bob;Remember my build was an XL VG but I do recall an issue with one of the SS strut-to-fuselage fitting during my build. Essentially, the bolt and rivet holes in the fitting that attach to the left and right sides of the cabin frame all aligned perfectly; BUT, of the 5 bolt holes (2 front side, 3 rear side) in the "fingers" that reach into the tunnel, the two front side holes - on the left side strut-to-fuselage fitting only - did not line up with the holes in the channel. (The right side strut-to-fuselage fitting caused no grief and all 11 bolt holes aligned properly.)

The two fittings (left and right side) did not look like mirror images of one another - the two bolt holes in the front "finger" on the left side fitting were not centered in the finger; the bolt holes in the "fingers" of the right side fitting were centered.

 

To correct the issue, I bolted the strut fitting to the side of the fuselage, marked the hole alignment using the holes in the mainspring channel, then removed the strut fitting, re-drilled the holes and used epoxy to fill the original holes. (pictures attached)

 

This may not be the issue you are facing, but it did indicate to me that the strut-to-fuselage fittings on my build did not live up to the same tolerances to which the rest of the components were blessed. Perhaps that part is still not sorted - the fittings appear to be individually fabricated and perhaps are not up to CNC tolerances.

 

All the best to you, Leigh and Peter; you each contributed great memories of a wonderful New Zealand visit. We're back home and excited about the Nova Scotia Spring. Perhaps someday, should you visit my neck of the woods, we can return your warm hospitality.

 

Dan

HI Dan, and thanks for your input on that.

Judging by the responses, this is more or less of a challenge on various builds. We are a bit puzzled here, as it wouldn't seem to be too difficult to improve this during manufacture. And i don't know what the XL was like, but the S rear fuselage goes together so beautifully, it lures the builder into a false sense of security!

 

Good to hear you and Carolyn made it home in time for spring. It was a real pleasure to meet you both and hear a little of your story. And strangely pleasing to meet a Savannah builder from the other end of the earth (well, more or less, my geography always was a little loose). Do keep us posted on your travels and your flights; and while it seems unlikely that we 'd find ourselves that way, you'll hear from us if we do!

 

Blue skies....)

 

 

[rankamateur]

I found that the bolts around the cabin wall being in thinner material had to be installed first then lever the holes in the main spring channel to align the holes in the stay mounts. Being heavier material it was able to take the heavier alignment. It seams that this stretches the cabin walls outwards giving the tension to the whole assembly. If you bolt the mounts onto the channel first there is way too much distance to cover with AN3-05 bolts.

 

 

[IBob]

Thanks for that, Steve, I can see the sense of what you are saying.

 

I'm not spending much time in the workshop at present, but will hopefully get some time this week. Like most of the 'tricky' bits on the build, I'm sure it will resolve with a bit of thought.

 

 

[rankamateur]

Thanks for that, Steve, I can see the sense of what you are saying.I'm not spending much time in the workshop at present, but will hopefully get some time this week. Like most of the 'tricky' bits on the build, I'm sure it will resolve with a bit of thought.

So far I have found that a good nights sleep often brings insight into something I just can't resolve while I am awake. Everything is clearer in to cool morning light.

 

 

[IBob]

So far I have found that a good nights sleep often brings insight into something I just can't resolve while I am awake. Everything is clearer in to cool morning light.

Very true: there is certainly a time to put down the tools and just do a little sweeping!

It's interesting, too, that for some parts there are good and 'bad' sequences of clekoing and fastening: find the good sequence and fastening goes without difficulty, stumble on the 'bad' and it's not going to go!

 

 

[rankamateur]

It's interesting, too, that for some parts there are good and 'bad' sequences of clekoing and fastening:!

Especially true for the corners of the rear fuselage joining the side sheets to the upper and lower sheets. I you are doing it wrong it will build a tension and carry it along until it builds beyond what the material can take and it will try to pop a nice fish scale dent in the curved corner section. From distant memory I can't recall which end to tell you to start but if you choose the wrong end you will experience exactly what I have described. Stay alert and you can see the tension building before any harm is done.