storchy neil Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 is your engine certified or non certified if certified how would you tell how is certification done by this I mean what is the difference how would your certified engine fail certification neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Certification equals Bureaucracy. No paper's means No Certification. Simple!. spacesailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunder Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 As far as Rotax's are concerned, model and serial numbers differentiate the two. The exact difference, I'm unsure of. More than likely they are the same but greater insurance liability covers the "certified"...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slb Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 if certified how would you tell Engine date plate: Red = Certified Black = Uncertified 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camel Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 For Rotax 912 100hp, This series is available as non-certified (Rotax 912 ULS) and certified engine (Rotax 912 S) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Can we get across the actual definitions here: 'Certificated' - means has achieved approval to the standard of an ICAO-signatory authority ( FAA, EASA, CASA). An 'certificated' engine will have a TCDS. The testing is oversighted by the Authority - not the manufacturer. T he legal responsibility for the performance of the engine, rests with the certificating authority 'Certified' means the manufacturer has certified that it performs to the ASTM standard. Though the ASTM standard and the 'Certificated' standards testing (whether to FAR, BCAR or JAR/EASA) are similar they are not identical - and the MAJOR point is that the legal responsibility goes back to the manufacturer. In practice, there is little to choose between relying on 'certification' or 'certified' - providing the latter is from a reputable manufacturer. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storchy neil Posted July 18, 2016 Author Share Posted July 18, 2016 is this a failed certified engine now the builder of your aircraft claims that it is a certified engine but has not put on the aircraft (for the sake of this debate ) the exhaust system from the maker of the certified engine is it still a certified engine neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storchy neil Posted July 19, 2016 Author Share Posted July 19, 2016 are there any legal restrictions on flying a non certified powered aircraft neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippydiesel Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 If I recall correctly (its been a few years since I did flight theory) , non certified aircraft can not legally be used for hire/reward. You can be trained in a non certified aircraft, if you are its owner (subject to instructors agreement). No other restrictions apply within Australia 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunder Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 Most RAA "24" aircraft have the "non-certified" Rotax UL/ULS as far as I'm aware. These can be used for hire/reward. Perhaps in the GA/ VH world this is true.....and you need the certified engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storchy neil Posted July 24, 2016 Author Share Posted July 24, 2016 have I read some were that non certified air craft are not to be flown over populated areas neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camel Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 The word is approved engines not certified. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storchy neil Posted July 24, 2016 Author Share Posted July 24, 2016 approved I agree camel but the engine must comply with the engine makers installation manual and all ADs neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 Neil: for both ASTM-certified aircraft and certificated aircraft, the installation is the aircraft manufacturer's responsibility. The certified /certificated engine achieves that status by specific testing of the engine alone, to meet the required performance specifications. The certified / certificated engine has to meet performance standards as defined - the installation needs to meet the requirements defined under the engine performance testing limits. If - for instance - you install a Lycoming engine in your airframe, Avco Lycoming will ONLY honour its guarantee when it has done an audit of the installation to ensure that it meets the performance for such matters as cooling, fuel flow etc. that were applied for its certification. An airframe manufacturer selling a certified (for all practical purposes, a 24-reg. aircraft) is responsible for the installation - NOT the engine manufacturer. If the airframe manufacturer decides that it has provided an installation that is not in accordance with the engine manufacturer's installation requirements - then it is the airframe manufacturer's responsibility. Your problems - as I understand them - are entirely the fault of Fly Synthesis / someone who modified your aircraft without complying with the manufacturer's requirements.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippydiesel Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 Most RAA "24" aircraft have the "non-certified" Rotax UL/ULS as far as I'm aware. These can be used for hire/reward.Perhaps in the GA/ VH world this is true.....and you need the certified engine. Of course you are correct, I completely forgot about RAA arrangements for training and aircraft hire. Just shows how inconsistent the whole regulatory system is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storchy neil Posted July 25, 2016 Author Share Posted July 25, 2016 sorry Oscar but there other aircraft out there that do not comply with rotax installation manual raa have been made aware off that fact please does anyone have permission to alter the installation manual off rotax power plant with out permission off rotax yes the testing of motors for aircraft is done with everything attached the as per the makers specs on the motor the minute that you deviate from the makers specs it becomes a boat anchor neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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