Friarpuk Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Hi folks It's been a while since I have posted anything on the forum. Life gets too busy pushing the important stuff like flying and aeroplanes to the side. But one has to push back and get one's track back on line. Therefore, to keep my passions alive, I have become increasingly interested in WW2 style Liaison aircraft (grasshoppers), such as the Aeronca Champ, the J-3 Cub, Interstate Cadet, Stinson, Taylorcraft Auster, etc. I would like to know where there might be an Aeronca Champ or J-3 Cub hangared that I can at least sit in to see if the love of these aircraft could be a reality for me and not just an academic exercise. Or even greater would be the chance to go for a ride in one to see how well it fits. From my investigation there doesn't seem to be many Champs floating around in Australia, a few more J-3 Cubs, and more Austers. If anyone has contacts for owners of these Liaison Aircraft I would dearly love to hear from you so perhaps I might get to know this section of the flying community better, so one day I might get the opportunity to fly and own (if the wife has a weak moment) a piece of flying history. Regards Friarpuk aka Heath Pukallus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingVizsla Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Hi Heath, There's an Auster for sale at Childers Qld. I could put you in touch with the owner, but he won't be back there till July. Caboolture is another place where there are a lot of historic aircraft. Could be worth a visit and chat to people who own and operate them. Downside with 'historic' is also 'expensive'. Sue 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ave8rr Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Heath, what about a 1948 piper vagabond? Midlife Continental A-65. PM if interested. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friarpuk Posted June 9, 2017 Author Share Posted June 9, 2017 Hi Heath, There's an Auster for sale at Childers Qld. I could put you in touch with the owner, but he won't be back there till July.Caboolture is another place where there are a lot of historic aircraft. Could be worth a visit and chat to people who own and operate them. Downside with 'historic' is also 'expensive'. Sue Hi Sue Do you know what type of engine is in it? Regardless would be good to fly over and have a look at it. BTW do you have a Vizsla? Love those dogs, would like to own one one day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanR Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 There are a few in the Sydney area if you are ever down this way 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Dogs or planes? Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friarpuk Posted June 9, 2017 Author Share Posted June 9, 2017 There are a few in the Sydney area if you are ever down this way Thanks Ian What type of aircraft exactly? Out of all the Liaison aircraft the two I am interested in are the Aeronca Champs and the J-3 Cubs. Never sat in either. And would love to try them on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Put the 2 seat Auster on your list. (Archer) No flaps. (common to any of this type). Engine is an orphan but replacement possible with new flat engine. . Tandem seat for others which I personally prefer. You can spend a lot on a plane and overcapitalise many of these types. Buying carefully will minimise that possibility. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friarpuk Posted June 9, 2017 Author Share Posted June 9, 2017 Put the 2 seat Auster on your list. (Archer) No flaps. (common to any of this type). Engine is an orphan but replacement possible with new flat engine. . Tandem seat for others which I personally prefer. You can spend a lot on a plane and overcapitalise many of these types. Buying carefully will minimise that possibility. Nev Thanks Nev. There seems to be considerably more Auster around than other liaison aircraft. For me buying is a long way off. Atm I have been admiring from afar. So it is still a romantic notion that's driving me. I need to see them, sit in them, talk to owners and maintainers about them, and learn more about them. Romantic notions are one thing, but they don't serve practical realities, like overhaul times and structural integrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingVizsla Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Hi SueDo you know what type of engine is in it? Regardless would be good to fly over and have a look at it. BTW do you have a Vizsla? Love those dogs, would like to own one one day! The owner of the Auster is a tall man, now over 70yrs, he's starting to have difficulty climbing in to the Auster and plans to trade it for a more accessible plane, and he no longer needs the speed and endurance, now he's not flying great distances. It has a 180hp, but between us we can't remember if it was Continental or Lycoming. I know of another Auster with a Gypsy in the Childers area. You'll get a seat, maybe even a fly. Hungarian Vizsla - the Velcro Dog - loved them, but I married 9 years ago, the dogs all died and the Boss said "no animals" I pointed out we had possums in the roof & packing shed, assorted snakes, an 8' Carpet python, goannas, the neighbour's cattle, spiny ant eaters, pheasants, birds, bandicoots; what's wrong with one more? I'll have to swap him for a Viz. Sue 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 The structure and materials used in the aircraft of this period mean they can fly indefinitely as they can be rebuilt. It's a question of economics though. Steel tube and a wooden spar in the wing can be forever rejuvenated/ repaired. 180 HP in an Auster is more than you need but the Gipsy Motor is heavy and you might have to extend the nose to get balance without adding an undesirable lead weight near the tail if you install the later lighter motor. You won't up the cruise speed much, economically . If you use the extra power it will waste fuel and be closer to its green line airframe speed limit. It will get of the ground much better though. I think I would go for the Auster Mk5 if one can be found with a flat engine already but off a type that is old. A Brand new Lyc 0-320 is a good idea. High time TBO and simple reliability. The early (Piper) Cubs are flown from the back seat.. Nev 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ave8rr Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 The Piper Vagabond has the metal spar wings and ribs. No need to find a LAME with wood inspection approvals (getting scarce) that are required for the Auster, early Champs J3, Cubs and Taylorcraft etc. I guess this is not a problem with owner maintenance however something to consider when looking at these "Old Girls". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanR Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Thanks IanWhat type of aircraft exactly? Out of all the Liaison aircraft the two I am interested in are the Aeronca Champs and the J-3 Cubs. Never sat in either. And would love to try them on. There are a couple of aeroncas at wedderburn and a j3 cub at Camden. There is also an l4 cub at Camden. The l4 is the military version. Others have mentioned th MK V Auster which is what I have. They came with a lycoming engine originally and are genuine warbirds. Not many of those round. most austere are the civilian types Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 The Austers are side by side and 3 or 4 place. There's plenty of info available on Taylorcraft, from which they are derived The Piper Cubs and Champs are tandem bar the tailwheel version of the Tripacer and the two seat version. Tandem is my choice by a small margin for visibility reasons. You have more balance (Cof G.)consideration with Tandem. Mostly you have to be a taildragger pilot to enjoy them. An extra bonus..Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 There's a nice old J3 at Gulgong, and this beauty lives at Gunnedah: 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 You can spend upwards of $80,000 on those things, easily, just on the airframe, and can often pick them up for under $30,000. The initial price is not the major consideration. Be knowledgeable of what they look like when the fabric is removed and a full overhaul is done. It can be depressing. You might pick up something younger for a bit more in the first instance. Citabria's and Decathlons are aerobatic. More modern engine and electrics. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friarpuk Posted June 11, 2017 Author Share Posted June 11, 2017 There's a nice old J3 at Gulgong, and this beauty lives at Gunnedah: What is the rego of the J-3? There was one getting around the Sunshine Coast some time back. Only ever seen pics of it, VH-JCP, on airliners.net flying over the ocean, at a strip nth of Noosa, and at Watts Bridge. Don't know what happened to it? Perhaps it is on the RAA register these days. The Auster looks pretty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friarpuk Posted June 11, 2017 Author Share Posted June 11, 2017 You can spend upwards of $80,000 on those things, easily, just on the airframe, and can often pick them up for under $30,000. The initial price is not the major consideration. Be knowledgeable of what they look like when the fabric is removed and a full overhaul is done. It can be depressing. You might pick up something younger for a bit more in the first instance. Citabria's and Decathlons are aerobatic. More modern engine and electrics. Nev So what weights do these aircraft come in at? RAA or VH? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friarpuk Posted June 11, 2017 Author Share Posted June 11, 2017 The structure and materials used in the aircraft of this period mean they can fly indefinitely as they can be rebuilt. It's a question of economics though. Steel tube and a wooden spar in the wing can be forever rejuvenated/ repaired. 180 HP in an Auster is more than you need but the Gipsy Motor is heavy and you might have to extend the nose to get balance without adding an undesirable lead weight near the tail if you install the later lighter motor. You won't up the cruise speed much, economically . If you use the extra power it will waste fuel and be closer to its green line airframe speed limit. It will get of the ground much better though. I think I would go for the Auster Mk5 if one can be found with a flat engine already but off a type that is old. A Brand new Lyc 0-320 is a good idea. High time TBO and simple reliability. The early (Piper) Cubs are flown from the back seat.. Nev There was an Auster at Pittsworth VH-PUK, but I believe it is now on the RAA register. If it was still VH it would be like having personalised plates. There is a good looking blue and white one I've seen at fly ins but haven't seen inside it, only flying, VH-PUL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tellerto Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 There's an Aeronca for hire or training at AirSport, YBOA. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friarpuk Posted June 11, 2017 Author Share Posted June 11, 2017 There's an Aeronca for hire or training at AirSport, YBOA. Hey thanks for this. Looks like I might need to take a day trip to Boonah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friarpuk Posted June 11, 2017 Author Share Posted June 11, 2017 There's a nice old J3 at Gulgong, and this beauty lives at Gunnedah: What is the little propeller out on the wing? Is it a pump for something? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 What is the little propeller out on the wing? Is it a pump for something? Take-off boost! Actually, I believe it drives a generator. What is the rego of the J-3? There was one getting around the Sunshine Coast some time back. Only ever seen pics of it, VH-JCP, on airliners.net flying over the ocean, at a strip nth of Noosa, and at Watts Bridge. Don't know what happened to it? Perhaps it is on the RAA register these days.The Auster looks pretty Update: That J3 has moved from Gulgong to Leeton. It's been in one family for two generations, with a third in the offing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundsounds Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 There are J3s at Luskintyre, Scone, Dubbo, Rylestone, Camden and Temora. Champs at Temora and Wangaratta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 The little propeller does drive a generator. If you re-engine with a later flat motor you save much weight and have a suitable electrical supply to run adsb, Radios, Anticollision lights, engine starter etc If you want to maintain originality it's another matter. There used to be a lot of parts for Gipsy major engines but that's over. They aren't as reliable as they once were. People fiddle with them. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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