Soar Aviation and Box Hill Institute lose accreditation

[Frankus1aust]

Re the opening comment from Neel on this link, https://www.smartcompany.com.au/entrepreneurs/influencers-profiles/soar-aviation-neel-khokhani-flight-school/

 

Yes he was fired, but not for telling the owner in question how to run his business. As he was dismissed he accused the owner of being a racist. The owner answered "I wasn't a racist but I am now".

 

This operation had "shonk" written all over it. The industry has enough challenges without get rich quick parasites fleecing it of resources.

 

 

[facthunter]

Aviation is no stranger to a few "Fly by Night" operators, wherever you go.. Nev

 

 

[Ando]

The Daly Waters pub is worth a visit, and the Star in Newcastle in it's heyday.  Nev

 

Barney’s wrote a song about The Star !

 

 

[NotSoSuperSonic]

Yes, he stood for election.  Any member can put their hand up.   There is no mechanism for saying "we think he's a bit sus don't accept his nomination".  The election spiel is written by the candidate, RAA does not go into the truth of the statement.  Even if he did get on the Board, he is still only one of seven.

 

The system is fairer than when Ian (Admin) nominated and certain members conspired to delay his membership, so that it lapsed while nominations were open and Ian was denied the chance to stand.  You can read about it on the forum, or PM Admin.  This was years ago with RAAus Inc.

 

Hi FlyingVizsla, thank you for your reply.  I’d like to provide you further details and reasons why it raises questions about the level of RAAus involvement, but it may offend some viewers...and possibly some offenders.

 

 

[red750]

Maybe aimed at a different demographic, but compare the training fleets, Soar vs Oxford Aviation Academy-

 

 

I live under the Lilydale - Police Acedmy flightpath. I reguarly see the blue tails, cannot recall seeing a budgie.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

It's a pity Bill Whitneys Boomerang hadn't fitted in there somewhere.  Design Built as a trainer from scratch.  The product from Cowra was promising also (in my opinion). Nev

 

Yes.. I saw it in a Pilot magazine (UK) write up = quite favourable. Unf, a couple of things were conspiring against it.. a) It was released at the height of plastic fantastics being hailed as the panacea to an ageing training fleet, solution to costs of aviation and a fashion statement. The Whitney was solid but old school.. Second, the Aussie Dollar was probably at its all time high (I know it sold in US $, but their costs were ultimately in AUD even if his suppliers billed in USD). I think at the time it was around $1.43 to the £.. And was the Aussie worth more than the USD at the time? I can't recall.. So from memory, a two seat trainer was smething like USD $200K or thereabouts. Compare this to a C150 at the time going for, say, USD $30K with reasonable hours, the extra investment if required meant a scholl had a hardr and proven trainer that would go for many more throusands of hours at, say a quarter of the price. Even though it is out of production and finding spares can be a pain in the proverbial. There;s a reason why Cessna no longer male them.. they made 'em good and as a result even they can't move new ones for the same reasons. Also, with a plentiful C172/PA28 and in Europe, Tecnam fleet now, it is just too tough for a new trainer. Shame..

 

With respect to comparing Soar to Oxford, I am not sure the photos do Soar justice. When I was out there, the Soar aircraft parked did look impressive for an RAA training fleet and were tidily parked up, even if the colour is a little lacking some class.  But that is the point I made some posts ago - it is an RAA fleet, not a GA fleet and given one needs GA licences on their way to an ATPL, why on earth would Soar (or at least an RAA certificate) feature in a commerical training course? The CAA here are doing a consultation about allowing ab initio training for a PPL being conducted in permit/LAA (equivalent of RAA) aircraft.. but it is still for a PPL.

 

Oxford are clearly an outfit to train to ATPL level. Over here, they have three tiers of students - Airline sponsored, Self-Sponsored and those that are just getting a PPL because they are convenient to the student (not even sure they accept the latter anymore). There is apparently a clear distinction amongst the ranks, with the first looking down on both the others, and the second looking down on the third.

 

I think Box Hill (of which I have been a student of) have something to answer to.. Thy seem to have minted a training course with not bothering to unserstand what is entailed to obtain the qualification they coveting (for want of a better word).

 

 

[Love to fly]

With respect to comparing Soar to Oxford, I am not sure the photos do Soar justice. When I was out there, the Soar aircraft parked did look impressive for an RAA training fleet and were tidily parked up, even if the colour is a little lacking some class.  But that is the point I made some posts ago - it is an RAA fleet, not a GA fleet and given one needs GA licences on their way to an ATPL, why on earth would Soar (or at least an RAA certificate) feature in a commerical training course? The CAA here are doing a consultation about allowing ab initio training for a PPL being conducted in permit/LAA (equivalent of RAA) aircraft.. but it is still for a PPL.

 

I'm not going into the whys/wherefores of training for CPL starting in Foxbats and Bristells - totally outside my knowledge base.  But .. most of the Soar fleet at Moorabbin are VH registered.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Hmmm.. Put my hand up.. a confirmation bias thing.. Seeing them instantly shouted non-CoA.

 

 

[old man emu]

Not so silly to have training aircraft coloured yellow. Our Learner's plates have always been yellow.

 

And why not use something simple like a Foxbat for ab initio training? Nobody ever takes their first lesson in the most technically advanced vehicle available. Foxbat up to RPL, then something with CSU, moving on to CSU plus up-and-down Dunlops. Then onto Navs.

 

 

[kgwilson]

Foxbats are easy to fly and cheaper to run than 172s but I think anyone who is training to become a commercial pilot needs to begin on a slightly more complex and conventional aircraft. The foxbats throttle position is weird down by your left thigh and the overhead manual flap also not very ergonomic. Plus no mixture etc. I'd go for the 172 every day. There is little point going for RPL if you intend to go commercial.

 

 

[old man emu]

Doesn't one progress from Student to Restricted, to Unrestricted to CPL during one's career training? The Student phase is where you learn the basics of flying. The PA-28 had a manual flap operation with a big lever on the floor. Once a person knows the basics of flying a plane, the idiosyncrasies of other makes and models don't take long to pick up.  

 

 

[facthunter]

I think there's a case for INITIALLY flying a fairly standard (conventional ) plane ..  In a general sense. Training aircraft need to be a bit "robust" so you don't have to be nervous about breaking something in the air or on the ground.  If the instructor has to always" nurse it" the student will miss out on what might be  a critical learning experience. .. Some U/L's are too light to last long in a training environment.  I think there's evidence of that out there. You also don't really know what the last person flying it, did to it. Aerobatic aircraft have "G" meters. All you have is a good preflight inspection. 

 

  Yes an aeroplane is an aeroplane when you've flown enough of them but you still have to treat different ones differently, let alone FIND where the throttle is on some planes and then there's the FUEL selector. Nev

 

 

[Love to fly]

Doesn't one progress from Student to Restricted, to Unrestricted to CPL during one's career training?

 

These days I think it is Student - RPL - PPL - CPL.  But you definitely don't have to do an RPL and can progress further without one.  

 

Aerobatic aircraft have "G" meters.

 

Our non aerobatic aircraft has a Garmin G3X touch with a G meter.  The Bristell's in the SOAR fleet at Moorabbin also has these, and I think their Foxbats may also have them.  

 

 

[facthunter]

Do they work in other than vertical LIFT axis.

  I doubt it, neither does a "G" meter. You can load a fin or twist a fuselage without sensing "G". Nev