FlyingVizsla Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I came from a flying family, but my father didn't approve of girls getting licences, so I waited until after he died to get my ppl. My present plane INC, I have owned for 15 years and flown mostly around outback Qld. After 50 years of just me, the plane & dog, I took a job closer to the coast and met my recently widdowed neighbour. Within a few minutes we discovered we were both plane owners and pilots (proving the addage - how do you know there's a pilot in the room - he'll tell you!). And the pick up line? "I'm building a plane; would you like to come over and look?" All I can say is that a half built Rans is a definite chick magnet. 13 months later I married him. He maintains that real pilots fly UL taildraggers with joy sticks, whereas I insist that a GA nosewheel with yoke is far superior. It keeps us laughing! I am very short and found the Lightwing difficult to control on the ground as I could not get enough rudder or see out so I have not finished my conversion to UL. Hubby has altered the rudders & stick so I can be a back seat driver in the Rans - one of the big advantages of UL builds - I tried to get a rudder extension approved for my GA aircraft and it was a nightmare. We have my C152, his recently completed Rans Courier S7, the Karasport and the Lightwing. We spent the honeymoon in the hangar working on the Rans and don't seem to fit in much flying. We are happy to answer any questions on builds & engines. Any one who wants to take my side (tricyle better than tail dragger) will instantly be my friend. Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thx1137 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 G'day and welcome! hehehe. I think world war three has just been declared! :-) I fly tricycles myself and am happy enough with them so I only get into the taildragger versus tricycle debate to stir. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slartibartfast Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Great story Sue. Welcome, and yes, no nosewheel - no way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Good work Sue! I like both... so does that still count? :big_grin: Welcome along, and I'm sure you'll like this place - well I do...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastmeg2 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Hi Sue, Welcome on board. I'll side with you on the tricycle versus taildragger as long you you leave the yoke out of it.:thumb_up: Cheers, Glen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pudestcon Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Welcome Sue, It ain't an aircraft unless it has a joystick and tailwheel:laugh: Pud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Choose. In sport aircraft, for versatility, I go for the tailwheel. It teaches you that there is a rudder and you must use it. Nosewheels are notoriously fragile. so go for a plane that already has it off. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushcaddy105 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 My humble opinion, backed up by many pilot authors I've read:- If you regularly fly with a tailwheel, you can easily fly a nosewheel Not so the other way round Interesting to see the revival and success of the numerous Cub clones now on the market. Why is it so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazda Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Welcome! Sometimes I think the C152 was the best thing Cessna ever built, certainly the cutest. :) Flying tailwheel aircraft without a doubt makes people better pilots. In saying that, nosewheels are certainly more stable and have better visibility on the ground, which is an advantage. Tailwheel aircraft are generally better for rougher fields, as facthunter says, nosewheels are fragile. Sue do persevere with your tailwheel training if you can! You can use cushions (or phone books) behind and underneath to help you to see if required, but remember with some taildraggers you won't be able to see out on the ground no matter how many cushions you use. That's why taildragger pilots do S turns on taxi (and look to the side for the take off & landing). As soon as the tailwheel comes up you should be able to see. As for yoke vs stick, there is absolutely nothing to debate there, the stick wins by far! Yokes were used to make people think they were driving a car. Think about it. Crosswind aileron into wind, you end up with the yoke sticking into your legs (especially if you are on cushions) and it feels very awkward. Crosswind with a stick, everything is the same, just move the stick over into wind, easy. Aerobatics with a yoke - awkward. Aerobatics with a stick - natural. :thumb_up: Remember that there are nosewheel aircraft with sticks, and tailwheel aircraft with yokes, s you could choose whatever you prefer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Tailwheel and stick is the way to go !!!..........let go of that training wheel............................................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigershark21 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Gimme a taildragger and stick anyday! ...nosewheels r good... but my first plane's gunna be a corby starlet for many reasons. Taildraggers make u more aware of nosing over, whereas some trike pilots aren't used to holding the stick back whilst taxying and sometimes aren't aware of the pressure they are exerting on a nose leg when they taxi/take-off/land ! On taildraggers, its fun to put 'em down on 3 points... On trikes, U gotta put 'em down on 2 points to take the exertion of landing before you lower the nose, otherwise if u 3 point a trike on landing that nose is taking the brunt the mains should be taking first. A nice slow 'n' easy 3 pointer on a taildragger and you're firmly on the gound! A nice slow 'n' easy touch down on ur mains in a trike, ur not fully on the ground yet, ur lacking nose steering until that nose wheel touches and ur using the rudder! Both got their pro's 'n' cons... But tail dragger for me anyday ! Would that be right or could someone please correct me? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Love the dog... Hi Sue I love the dog and I hope she travels well. My Mandy has a permit to fly, too. Not wanting to bag anyone or anything like that, but I thought you were supposed to take the training wheel off once you learned the basics? I fly an Auster as old as me (we were both built in 1944). kaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigershark21 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 That is so awesome kaz! Classic!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigershark21 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Ahhh yes David! coudn't have said it sweeter! I'm in love with taildraggers haha! Ur so right about learning what a rudder really is for! Learning what ur plane is all about is so evident in a taildragger and more masked in a trike. Horespower (careful use of throttle), wing span to prop diameter for torque rudder deflection, length of nose (more or less tendency to nose over including careful braking and also runway surface), and wide or narrow track undercarriage and groundlooping.... I see where they can bite you! ...but aren't they so sweet ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigershark21 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 hahahahaha oh nah it's great! I really liked the AG plane, Piper's Pawnee PA-25 235hp O-540 ! She was a real workin dog! She pulled up gliders no probs with an undercarriage and wheels that satisfies any strip. She was such a brute, yet so cute with those puffy lil tyres! Taildraggers can handle any place or Pilatus PC-6 turbo porter's would've been trikes!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigershark21 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Did anyone realise that the first ever jet aircraft was a taildragger !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Heinkel 178 first flew on the 27th August 1939 Aerospaceweb.org | Ask Us - Jet Engine Development Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JG3 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Here is my real-life experience with both types of gear - StolSpeed Aerodynamics - Performance Enhancement for Light Aircraft JG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Qwerty Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Tecnically, what most of you are talking about are tail wheel a/c. I was corrected in no uncertain terms by a trial dragger owner. There is a difference and I for one dont want to put any tail dragger owners off side. I am still looking forward to my first flight in a tail dragger after many hours in tail wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest taildragger Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 As you can see by my profile name I do prefer tailwheel. I do fly both in GA but can say without a doubt that mastering the tailwheel will make your handling of nosewheel aircraft in any wind condition that much more competent. Plus I personally believe that to experience true grass roots aviation you must be flying "stick and rudder" and "rag and tube" my opinion only here of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Tecnically, what most of you are talking about are tail wheel a/c. I was corrected in no uncertain terms by a trial dragger owner. There is a difference and I for one dont want to put any tail dragger owners off side. I am still looking forward to my first flight in a tail dragger after many hours in tail wheels. Haha!! I was thinking the same... but then again, taildragger does sound more original than tail wheel?! But is not technically correct, unless you snap your wheel off... I call it the aircraft personalities... each aircraft has its own little thing, each aircraft handles a little differently, some are more comfortable than others, look better, handle better, fast, slow.... stick, yoke, trike, tailwheel... to me it's not a like/hate thing, its just enjoying each personality... Though I probably wouldn't fly to Perth in the Drifter if I had something faster available! But if it's strong, built properly, and handled properly... you'll probably get me into it! (a bit of reliability has to come in there also!;)) But come to think of it... I fly for fun... so it doesn't really matter ATM!! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Clarification. Taildragger is a coloquial? generic term. For those who don't know, the DH-82 Tiger Moth didn't have a tailwheel. It had a TAILSKID and NO brakes. The skid had a little "keel" in the centre of the pad that acted as a rudder in the grass and enabled the aircraft to be steered on the ground as the whole device moved with the rudder. This set-up is pretty unpopular with aerodrome owners so most (all?) tigers now have a tailwheel. This conversion requires the fitting of independant operating brakes and mounting the landing gear a bit further forward. This is to reduce the likelihood of the aircraft going on it's nose. When you move nosegear forward on taildraggers it makes them a little more difficult to keep straight so that is a slight negative effect. (Bit of useless information).. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest taildragger Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 No, there are definately still some original Tigers with tailskid. I know of one in particular based near Jacobs Well, Gold Coast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Right.. GOOD... Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Qwerty Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 I saw a couple of Tigremoths with skids somewhere in the not to distant past, can't remember where. Facthunter, am I to understand that the term tail dragger now includes tail wheel a/c? And if so why. Why does the english language have to change such that perfectly good words with clear meaning change so that I cant understand what is going on around me? I have enough trouble communicating with neuro-typicals without the language changing every 5 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Terms/usage. Qwerty, my recollection of all this is that the term "taildragger" is a bit of a ring in. I don't remember any concept of anything "Dragging" in any description. The tricycle undercarriage was pretty much unknown till after the war, so there never was much of a need to differentiate.. The ME 262 and the Douglas C-54 were among the earliest that I can think of. ( No doubt there will be others). The Hastings was an english 4 engined airliner but was Tailwheel configured, somewhat remarkably today but not so in its time, just after the war.. I would suggest that it was quickly adopted in America which probably had the Lion's share of the aircraft market. Tailwheel was still used in Alaska because of the nature of the strips there. I DO remember the introduction of the tricycle geared TRAINERS (not really, but that is what they were used for) the C-172, Piper Cherokee140 and the C-150. They were a non-event to convert onto from a Tailwheeler, and I was just amazed that accidents were occurring (with wheelbarrowing effect) and a too fast touchdown speed, a little while later, where pilots had never flown tailwheel and had learnt at places that had "excess" runway. Most landings with tailwheel aircraft were done using the 3 point technique, (almost universal). It was the standard technique used in training. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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