blueline

I agree with Brentc - 85 knots is very very fast in a 230! I use 65 knots and full flaps but can do 55 knots for a STOL landing. This is as per the AFM.

Brothers - lets face the real enemey! Now that we have worked out that we should love each other it is time to turn on the real enemy.........that Tecnam scum! :hittinghead: (and for the benefit of BRILIN......."were the Judean Peoples Front, not that Peoples Front of Judea scum" - he knows what I'm talking about)

sick of J160 bashing! What is it with normal people and the abnormal hate of the J160! quote "If you make a mistake and get yourself in a sudden nasty stall type / spin situation, the high wing loading and shorter span of the J160 will really bite when it lets go and will cost a lot of height whereas the J170 with the lower wing loading and longer span will not be anywhere near as nasty in it's reaction." Oh please! - I have in the course of my work seen people try every kind of power on/ power off/ flaps down/ flaps up/ turning/ pitching/ rolling/ accelerated/ non-accelerated/ crossed up stall, with all kinds of inventive recovery techniques and I have NEVER seen one "bite". AND, while I am having a rant, HOW DARE these up start J120 people compare themselves to the J160! The J120 is cheap and it climbs better. From there on it is down hill......

Hi Ferret, J230d flys fine at 55knots (certainly no problems with control effectivness in all normal conditions). As you would expect the hold off is brief when compared to a normal approach speed of 65. The J160c will be very unhappy at these speeds - when Jabiru say 63knots minimum speed, they mean it! At 55 knots the J160c is flying at less than 1.3 x stall speed, and feels like it (and is a long way into the back of the drag curve if you know what I mean). Control is not the issue - running out of lift is. Either aircraft has no issue with operating from a 560 metre strip (even for touch and goes with low time pilots). I have not checked the flight manual but I would think that you would need at least 300 metres to operate a J230 from - preferably though try to get 500 metres, then you can operate most aircraft without too much trouble. I have just got a J170 online now so would be interested to see how much runway it needs??? Regards, Blueline

Sounds like a scary way to loose altitude! - I hope that every now gets the idea that trying to repeat this technique is not smart.

Hi Tony - Love your work BUT could you trim just a couple of hundred words off each post!!:thumb_up:

136 litres useable in J160. Phil gives a very good "Readers Digest" version of the differences. LSA only has a useful load of about 185kg, making 2 people and fuel a problem, especially if they are two heavy people (if you want to stay legal!) J160 carries a useful load of about 240kg.

Scholarship at Ballarat I have on offer a Scholarship of 10 hours dual training in a J160c, all necessary theory tuition, a BAK text book and pilots log book - FREE! (training to be conducted at Inbound Aviation at Ballarat, so you will need to live within travelling distance) One only available and open to anyone under 18 years who has a genuine interest in an aviation (other conditions do apply, but it is a genuine offer and I have been contacting schools in my area already). Great start for someone! (sorry about the lack of glitz with this offer - PM me for more info).

Thanks for the help. I'll give the 10ply a try - I should be able to get a higher GVM!

Do the 10 ply tyres fit inside the spats?

Can somebody tell me where I can get Trelleborg 13-500x6 6ply tyres as used on the J160's and J230's?? I am having trouble finding someone who can supply them for a discounted price (I am happy to buy in bulk if need be!)

DUAL COM's?? Oh please! - Good luck keeping up with chatter on 2 radios! At least they have stuck a useful length tail on the thing - something that early Jabiru's really did need. Two radio's - I'm still laughing!

try getting an "anderson" plug. These are designed for use with high current DC. I use just a 50amp version and it seems to work fine mounted on the bottom of the firewall - I just plug in the matching jumper leads and away I go. I bought a bag of 10 of these, so if you want one PM me.

You raise a really good point. In my case I am happy to (and I expect to) spend about 30 minutes on the ground with a student prior to flying with them (this tends to get shorter if it is a repeat of a previous lesson - eg circuits). Yes I only get paid when the engine runs so I suppose I would be better of just pushing them into the plane and flying. What stops me doing this is professional ethics - and the knowledge that my students aren't idiots (mostly!) and that they appreciate the time spent during briefings which in turn means I have loyal customers who (hopefully) refer new customers to me. From time to time I have to spend extra time in the classroom (outside of a theory class) which I sometimes charge for. I doubt that many instructors would turn you away if you offered to pay a little extra for extra briefing time if you feel you need it - I think it would be money very well spent!

662 was originally owned by Ballarat Aero Club for a lot of years (learnt to fly in it) Engine wise it was a KFM, then 1600 then 2200. I think this plane still has the 50 litre tank (should be changed to the 65L tank as this was a required mod) and has no stall warning but has retained the stall strips (should be changed - required mod). Looks good though, and price is pretty good as well!

Apart from nostalga why are we better off with a weight limit? .......and no, just saying "because thats the way it is" or "95.10 is what the AUF is all about" or "we don't want Cessna's" is NOT an answer! What I am interested in hearing is, is there a sound and justifiable reason why we have a weight limit at all?

Why have a limit at all? Just a thought, but why are we safer with a 600kg limit or 750kg limit? How does a weight limit make things better or safer?

I should add that a 700 metre strip would be no problem for the J160 or J230 (can do circuit training on a 560 metre strip with little problems).

Larger wing area means that the aircraft can generate sufficient lift for takeoff at a lower IAS when compared to a smaller winged aircraft. Or put another way, Big wing=lower IAS for liftoff= shorter takeoff run. Same is true on landing - more wing= lower IAS on approach = shorter landing roll. My experience is with the J160 and J230 (among other stuff) and have no experience on the J170 BUT for comparision even with its higher MTOW the J230 has a minimum approach speed of 55knots IAS versus 63 knots for the J160. The J230 is easier to fly than the J160 ............... I'm sure others will be able to provide more useful info.

Compressions when cold seem to be all over the place even on new engines (the J160 now has 500 hours and seems to have one always low when cold, J230 has 75 hours and it too has some low compressions when cold). Does seem to get better when hot (as it should). Lycoming engines the same. Leak down compression test on a hot engine is the only one that counts (but I can't help but notice when one is down on compression, even when cold). I'm more worried about oil temps, especially as summer kicks in!

I do agree that some L2 maintainers are going to get more expensive. I for one am prepared to pay more - they need to eat as well! LAME's will most likely always be more expensive because they have higher costs. Facthunter you are certainly on point when you say that a simple airframe means simple maintenance! I know someone that has just spent $8,000 on a 100hrly because of corrosion. This was just in the lower fuselage - he still has 2 wings and the tail to worry about!

As a really rough guide I can say from experience (I have operated a Piper Cherokee and now operate a J160 and J230) that your maintenance cost will be about 10% of old GA types - but this is using a L2 not LAME (he charges much less than any LAME!) takes about 6-8 man hours to do a 100hrly and about 1-2 hours every 25 for oil change/general check over. Parts are much cheaper. Plugs about $3.50 VS $25! Engine life not as good, but they are cheaper to overhaul and the engines are improving - just make sure that your LAME (or L2) really knows these engines (just because a LAME charges $75 per hour this does not mean he knows what he/she is doing!). Airframe maintenance is almost zero when compared to older GA types - tyres, lube hinges- thats about it. Any reason why you are choosing to go GA rego?

Is the J120 really an SP? Just from the look of the Jabiru ad the J120 looks like the long tailed SP (which had a MTOW of 500kg). Jabiru have been making them for the European market. These are nicer to fly than the LSA (which always needed a bit more directional stability). $58,000 new including GST - sure will put a lid on used prices!

Try eModelAirplanes on ebay. They have J160 models in solid wood (Phillipine Mahogany) and do a custom paint job if you send them pictures of your plane. Cost about $150usd with custom paint. Very good qaulity, takes about 6 weeks. They look brilliant!