Jerry_Atrick

@kaz3g, dafrned good point - they want to get a lien on those a/c ASAP... Re selling them and being desparate (from our man with a suspended sentence ?) - well, my guess is their income stream is expected to rapidly dry up and that $66M valuation will probably plummet to the ground faster than his studes have.. I was going to say, mind you they are probably high time and have been beaten aruond a bit, but from the looks of it, only a few studes got up (in the air, fellas) and when they did, the outcome was less than impressive (for the purposes of liability, that was a joke - no libel intended). In that colour, I may buy them and satrt a complany - Yellow Cabs...

Take it easy squire.. health is more important than anything.... I understand the frustration of not being able to fly for a long time.. When I was waiting to do my qualifying x-country in the UK, every day I had booked was unflyable - let every day (and I do mean every day) it wasn't booked there was gloriour flying weather.. Even the flight instructors couldn't believe it. Well, I learned something about press-on-itis about that... (I wrote a readers experience that was in the back page of Aussie Flying about it). The TB20 I bought into went into the paint shop at the beginning of October for a repsray.. "Ahh mate. may take around a month if you're unlucky..." The photo below came on Friday.. With any luck, next week they will start putting it together.. And for this time of year, we have had wonderful flying weather.. right up until about now... I have a theory.. My father hated my flying with a passion... I think after he passed away, he just scraped past the pearly gates and now every time I am about to do something, he bigs the old fella until he caves in and sends bad weather, faulty paint or something down to stop me flying ?

Isn't the drunken frivolity the whole reason to go.. I hear one has to camp as they don't take accommodation bookings at the hotel these days...

A very enterprising young man - so good on him for that.... Selling to PEs probably not the best way to go.. because they, like VCs want to see very good returns and growth... and unless he was in cash flow drought territory, the services of a board of directors or business mentors may have been a better approach...

Things have obviosuly moved on in Australia since I had emigrated, but why on earth would one do a recreational licence on the way to a CPL? Wouldn't it be better to go straight tfor the PPL? And back to the students, even with fee assistance, if one is going to depart with c. 80K of their money, even at the age of 17 or so, surely it wouldn't be beyond the realms of logic to darned well do some research before committing that cash. Expensive lesson for them (that they should not have had to learn). I remember when I started to learn to fly, back before the days of the WWW, when a PPL costs something like $4K from memory (of one did the course in average time), it was straight to the newsagent and copies of Aussie Aviation and Aussie Flying for a couple of months, visited every school at Moorabbin, as well as Baccus Marsh (TVSA where there at the time) and other schools/instructors at other airfields before making a decision. Most students at the time went through much the same process. Also, it was common that one used the same insructor all the way through (not sure about now)... When I realised the one I settled on was not quite up to the standard I expected, I ditched him for another, which worked like a charm. Now with the intersplodge, it is so much easier to access unbiased/independent information - many mag sites put their articles online for free these days.. There are always bumps along the way that can't be controlled or just happen due to circumstances, slip ups, etc, but the above student's write up does ring of intentional fraud... which may mean the stuents can personally go after the CEO and directors rather than a $2 company.

Welcome, Lee... I used to live in Surrey - now Somerset.. Used to fly from Fairoaks and now a bit closer to Somerset... The 'Bushe... And occasionally Dunkeswell... Hope to see you around some time... Cheers, JA

I do tend to take marked up paper maps and track progress on them and a PLOG. I have had two handheld GPS failures - one lost signal (although there was no NOTAM of GPS signal jamming, one can't discount it) and one where for some reason, I could fly @ 180 degrees from the course and it was still showing me tracking along the magenta line (in the right direction). I sort of like navigating the old way (how many VORs and NDBs are left in Aus.. there are fewer and fewer left in the UK) amd still manually mark up my map and measure track direction, use a whizzwheel (that I bought from La Trobe Valley flying club back in '96 which is metal and built to last) to calculate deviation ad headings and compare to the flight planning software version. Where controlled airspace is not an issue (and I mean like the one in South East England - not a few steps around Tullamarine), I often don't even bother with the GPS and only use the flight planning software for easy integration of information such as weather, NOTAMs, terrain and the like. In my first GPS failure, I was relying on th GPS and found my actual track was pretty horrid, oscillating about the magenta line like a muted radio/sine wave. When I lost signal, I used the old trick of pointing at a land mark in the distance and suddenly I was flying much more accurately in the horizontal plane. I now have another adventure in the calendar - June 9 - 13... An Italian member of the UK flyer forums organises a forum flyout to Italy every couple of years or so. It happens he is doing it this year. I have missed the last three and intend to do this.. It is usually is to an airfield in Northern Italy. The routing will be south along the east of the Alps, across Southern France and into Italy.

You are not wrong, sir... We also have the concept of non-equity syndicates, which are basically private rental agreements where those renting pay a fixed monthly fee in return for rentl rates substantially cheaper than the local flight school. Often, people think it is the renter who can't afford flying.. I had a look at a couple of these and in both cases it was exactly as Spacey described...

@skippydiesel, agree the problems are usually the entry of a third party and I think it will test the syndicate agreement, written or not. In the first syndicate, we had a new member who was a pain.. He didn't do anything terribly wrong, but kept on doing minor things wrong to the point where it was just frustrating.. Things like overtightening the dipstick all the time or forgetting to lock the doors; not properly stowing stuff afterwards, etc. Not stuff that would compromise the safety of the flight, but after a while, the other syndicate members were getting mightilly peeved. In the end, a meeting was called in which he was invited and it was discussed. It was agreed that he would either shape up or the syndicate would use the engine fund to purchase back his share at a slight depreciation and then on-sell to someone else. Never needed to withdraw a penny - magically he tidied up his act. In the same syndicate, there were a two members who were peeved.. We found some skin corrosion in a 100 hourly and some of the syndicate wanted to simply have it patched (at a cost of c. £2k from memory), while others wanted to do a full bare metal respray (at £17k). Now, the only rule that would be in a written agreement about this sort of stuff would be that it would be put to a vote and a majority (or possibly qualified majority) would decide. From memory, 6 of the 8 voted for a full bare metal respray (I was in the 6). One of those vented their frustration quite robustly. So even existing members that have different outlooks will occasionally clash.. I am not saying no to central written rules for syndicates - of course they work. I am just saying it doesn't necessarily have to be written - it will depend on one's comfort zone. As an FYI, here is a share for sale: https://afors.com/aircraftView/48214 It should be perfect for me as it is at the local airfield and would make an ideal second shareoplane or even the main one,, But after 5 minutes talking to a previous share seller, I decided the syndicate was not for me,.. too many rules...

@onetrack, I get your point and if it were a syndicate of 2 or 3, I would probably want something in writing. But I woud find it difficult to believe that say 6 of 8 would lie or deny a rule if it came to it. Most of the stuff is covered by law, anyway and it is the things like does one have to clean the plane afterwards, the costs/charges, the exit process, etc that are pretty variable. For example, if you lose your job and can't pay the monthlies, etc.. It all changes by vote, anyway... Changes are usually confirmed in email, so I supppse this is a form of written agreement, but there is no central documented agreement. I think the other thing is syndicates have bee a common way of owning planes here for a very long time that it has matured a bit

@skippydiesel, no offence taken.. I am not advocating not having a written agreement - but I am advocating that there has to be a good degree of trust in any syndicate - with or without a written setof rules in place - and therefore a good amount of time should be spent assessing whether or not the syndicate as a whole is compatible with oneself. Of course, the UK and Aus have different laws around this- and a knowledge of the law would be required to understand the enforceability of any such set of rules as well.. It would all come down to evidence in a dispute and often, written sets of rules are complimented with implied provisions as well, etc etc.. What I am saying, I suppose is that the written set of rules will not necesarily cover everything nor necessarily be entirely enforceable and they may be unreasonable (some syndicates here have restrictions on a member being able to sell but often they are not enforceable whether they are written or verbal). @kgwilson, the only place those rules are written that I know of are in this thread. When I first heard of the share coming up, I arranged a meeting with the person in the syndicate I know and a quick check flight (I didn't need to do this with the first syndicate as I was a passenger in a trip to France in the plane and I know the syndicate member really well). After the flight, he ran me through those rules.. Even I was a little concerned, so we spent about an hour of me rapid firing questions to which he answered or deferred until the formal meeting where everyone had a chance to assess me and I them. As I mentioned, for this one, they all turned up and the "el presidento"of the syndicate stated it was open slather - feel free to ask anythiung of them and I was to allow anything (aviation related) to be asked of me. It was pretty clear this was a fairly good syndicate - one of the factors is that 6 of the 8 had been in the same syndicate (owning different planes) for 20 years. I had a good feeling about the syndicate and when the major rules were verbally confirmed, el presidento asked around the table if the syndicate members were happy to have me in and asked if I was happy to be in. Once agreed, they gave me they key and asked me to pay the purchase price when I was ready... The other rule was no fly solo until checked out by the syndicate instructor - who, as it turns out is a real sky god - ex Hunter fast Jet jick, Red Arrows instructor and went on to become a doctor and professor of aviation medicine. Syndicates typically work on a monthly payment to cover fixed costs - such as hangarage, insurance, etc. Then there is a fixed hourly rate - this will be either wet or dry; I have only been in a syndicate where it is the wet rate. If we full up at our home airfield (the truck comes along and does it), we sign for it on account and don't pay. If we fill up away from the home airfield, we keep the receipts, write our name on it and pop it in an envelope and the amount is deducted from the hourly charge we have to pay. We pay a fixed hourly rate that has a slight uplift over the expected hourly fuel costs to build a maintenance/engine fund... However, like fuel, if we have to have emergency maintenance done and cover the cost, it is deducted from what we would have to pay based on the hours we fly. If the engine fund doesn't maintenance, a cash call is made to all members for the amount owed in proportion of the share one owns. Since we all owe 1/8th, we are required to contribute 1/8th. This does slightly favour the pilots flying higher hours, but the reality is, unless something big hits the plane for which there is no maintenance funds, it is rare to have a cash call and if it turns out not being cheaper than renting, it won't purely be the cash call that does it. We are lucky with our syndicate as one of our members is the head of engineering for an airline out here and is FAA licensed.. so he does all of our work, too. I am still waiting for the P&W engine to be fitted, though ? If we are required to make an insurance claim, legally we only have to contribute in proportion to our ownership as these aer joint and several ownership models. However, we have an agreement that the person who bingles it pays the excess - currently £250 - so won't break the bank (as an FYI, our hull value is I think £150K and insurance is around £1300 from memory). Cheers, J

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Although in the UK where the laws are slightly different, I have been i two syndicates - one a PA28 and now the TB20GT. There are advantages and disadvantages to syndicates but I find for the amount of flying I do, which is never enough, they are a great compromise. There is a CAA limit of 20 people (directlry or indirectly) in the syndicate. Both of my syndicates comprised of 8 equal shareholders and so far (touch wood), they have worked out very well. There is NO documented agreement in either syndicate. I know it is probably best practice to have a documented agreement, but this can be sometimes too rigid when things come up that are unexpected. The rules in both syndicates were very similar: - Look after the aircraft - don't abuse it as the syndicate reserve the right on a majority vote to boot you out of the syndicate and sell your share on your behalf - There was a time limit on bookings (the PA28 was 14 days, the TB20 is 12 days for some reason). Use it, but don't abuse it or you will have your key taken off you for a period of time - If taking the a/c away for a longer period of time, don't under use it. - If you decide to sell your share, the syndicate have the right to vet any prosepctive purchaser. The PA28 group didn't bother; the TB20 group went through my log book with a fine-tooth comb. Of course, without written rules, it can become messy if just one person in the syndicate doesn't quite work out, however, it is clear that on a majority vote, a decision of the Syndicate is binding. They booted out someone who belly-landed the plane (that is how I came to get my share). The one issue with this is that under UK law, if a buyer can't be found willing to pay a fair value within a reasonable amount of time, the seller can force the rest of the syndicate to put the whole a/c up for sale at a fair value. Of course a documented agreement doesn't mean the syndicate is going to be a good one. I looked at a TB10 syndicate that did have everythig documented, and after looking at how regimented it was, I decided against it. There was no room for flexibility without going through the syndicate treasurer; For example, the amount and dates of bookings one could make were fixed and even if the plane was not booked on a day that was allocated to someone else, you couldn't check with that someone else - it had to go through the treasurer. And you couldn't book more than 2 weeks in advance, which as I pointed out to them was stupid as the days allocated to each pilot could be calculated ad infinitum. Needless to say, I didn't even bother with a test-flight. In both syndicates I have been in, if a plane was booked when I really, really wanted it, I would simply send the person who had the plane booked an email to ask that should they not really need it or are not likely to actually go flying, can I have it.. And I had received similar emails to which I have happily relinquished my booking more often than not. The success or failure of a syndiate depends on the people in the syndicate and the Syndicate leader/treasurer. No amount of documentation will really make a difference as if there are a majority of syndicate holders that push something through, they can and will change the documented agreement anyway. In both syndicates I have joined, I had known (not as mates, but either through flying or work) one of the syndicate members and both were pretty honest about the positives and negatives of their specific syndicate. I have heard horror stories through for both documented and undocumented syndicates. Another benefit of being in a syndicate is it frees up more captical to be in another syndicate. That way, say you do a bit of aeros and a bit of touring, you can have a share in each type of a/c and be less concerned about getting an a/c designed on major compromises. Of course, the disadvantage is that should say one person have the majority share, what they say will go... in theory even to the point they could vote to have you sell your share to them for a peppercorn. Trust is a huge component of shareoplanes and apart from the usual things to look out for (condition of a/c, historical availability, engine/maintenance fund, damage history, etc), assessing the people in the syndicate as compatible with your standards/modus operandi is equally or probably most important.

I am not sure where Buk House is in London or Marble Bar (are you thinking Marble Arch?), but getting a train from Luton Airport Parkway to BlackFriars via St. Pancras (i.e. both ends of centra Lonfon) is around 40 mins (https://www.london-luton.co.uk/to-and-from-lla/going-south-beyond-london). Note, Luton is probably worse than Proserpine as an airport and I don't know too many people who are prepared to go there. The main London airports are Heathrow, Stanstead, London City, Luton, Gatwick. Of recent addition us Southend (considered a London airport for some reason despite it being closer to France than London) and Oxford! Next it will be London Birmingham! Airports are entirely privately operated here (many privately owned) and having "London" in front of them is considered to add to their marketability.

@mnewbery, I hope whatever damage has been caused to your lungs, it is tempo and recovers soon.. Re the wx and fires in Aus, terrible; is still in the daily news in the UK... In the mean tme sims may be the better option...

Thanks Downunder. Quite a few years ago, I tried the 3month trial, but with digitised maps and what looked like a cumbersome UI, I gave it away.. Maybe I wil try it again And thanks for the NAIPs info! J

In December, 2018, I flew back to Melbourne for a whole 3 days for my mother's 80th. It was an A380 economy class. Bearing in mind I didn't go for he cheapest, but as Qantas was competitve (within reason), I decided that national pride would win this day.. .They were about £250 more than Singapore Airlines (from memory)... They were quite a bit more than the middle east airlines, but as I much prefer the routing either through HK or Singas, I don't include them in the count (most ME routes will add 10 hours to the travel time). I have to admit, I was looking forward to being able to have a couple of VBs on the flight. Yes, compared to the beers here, VB is just a slight notch above Coors Light, but I have a penchant for it (as it was the beer I grew up on - when I finally started partaking in a tipple; Also, a ritual for me when I arrive in Aus is to go to the local Coles Express and get a Four'n'Twenty pie - love them; it is a flaw in my personality). Well, getting onto the behemoth the A380 is required me to take a short stroll through business class before being herded through the gates into Cattle class. While strolling through business class I couldn't help but notice that the pods where fastidious and the flight attendants there were a) pretty cute (the girl ones) and b) actually smiled. But the gates through the cattle class run were opened, and things looked decidely.. <snip, as I don't want to have to be hassled with corporate stuff> . Suffice to say, I don't think, at least in economy, they care much more for their reputation, which is odd, as they are rarely even close to being price competitve with others that I think have, of late, provided much better service and amenity with similar routing. However, the route fronm London to HK/SG is in such demand, they seem to fill those searts anyway. And I guess they optimise the schedule to ensure their planes are at good capacity from these hubs to whatever Aus city they fly to. Contrasting this to when my father became very ill about 15 years ago and I needed a mercy dash to see him before the inevitable and Qantas, although not prepared to discount for short notice, which is completely understandable, managed to get me to see my father via a somewhat convaluted route (it was within the peak period) and their cattle class would have made the most prized bull very comfortable. I stuck with them until things seemed to move well onto the wrong side of the equation for me. I read an article in the Aussie FInancial Review (I think) and they may be better on the North American routes as I think that is the market they prefer to target - which seems strange asm although the same population as Europe, far fewer people per capita even leave their state let alone the country. Also of interest, I read in the US Flyer Magazine many years ago that an airline asked their flight staff for ideas about how to get passenger numbers up - i.e. what can they improve on. The usual better service, better food/drink and better in flight entertainment was put in place but the marketing team decided this would take too long to see a brand improvement; they finally implemented painting whacky art on the aricraft tails; apparently a 25% increase in bookings started about a week later.

They do, but you will find their rental charge quite a bit more expensive than the EGLK company I linked to above.

Like the Cherokee six, I don't plan on the extra costs to carry two seats, but the 210 flies faster than a TB20 with less fuel - so has to be worth looking at... I have also thought about a 182 as well; they are going for about $360/hour wet bit that is worth the extra 40 kts over a PA28/C172 @ c. $260/hr. I am not wedded to starting the trip from Melbourne; My family are based there; I am happy to start and end from around Adelaide through to Redcliffe and anywhere in between - depending on the aircraft..

I wont necessarily avoid Ryanscare if they fly my route and offer a competitive fare. I have flown EasyJet and TUI as well, and they are pretty much the same. They used to call them bucket shop airlines (and this included chartered aircraft as well) as it was like being loaded into a bucket and thrown to one's destination. Has been a model since I arrived in the UK. And collectively, their safety record seems to be in good shape - no worse than the supposed full-service airlines (which, by the way, I have been looking at fliughts to Cyprus and even BA now charge for checked in luggage - and a whack more than the bucket-shops...)

I think they also went wrong on the idea. Renting aircraft is not like renitng cars. I have been looking into firing up something similar in Europe, especially since the Single European Rules of the Air, and the logistics and economics just don't stand up to any real assessment. First, there simply isn't tthe critical mass of pilots who need to rent; Second, the ability to even utilise a planned rental has a much higher risk of not materialising due to weather or servicabiity than a car. Third, like Turbi says, even if you are insured to fly, it is easier for an unfamiliar area to take an instructor to ensure one remains legal and safe; forth - if a multi-office car rental firm ends up with too many cars in one location, they just load them onto a truck - it;s a relatively painless and cheap exercise - can't simply reposition planes that are left at other locations as they renter has had to hop on a plane due to delays in being able to get fly themselves back; and so on. ANy repositionng would either be at the renter's expense, making it uncompetitively expensive or simply eat whatever profit one eeks out... So far, this sort of renting model seems to work better: https://www.eglk.co.uk/

I have flown Ryanscare once - to Dublin - and it was actually OK. We actually went to Dublin, rather than Cork airport. Yes, Ryanscare had a policy of taking people to destinations that were hardly in the same country, let alone the same city as advertised, but Luton has been considered one of the London airports at least as long as I have been here ('96), and longer. London airports include Stansted and Gatwick - both hardly that close to London. Ryanscare's revenue model is not the airfares - it is the extras (such as luggage), and the retailing they do in the air. It is darned expensive, and for some reason, people need to have a £1 drop of soft drink and £3 heated chips (of which there are about 10 chips included).. In addition, they had installed gambling machines where the seat-back monitors should be and that has apparently been a roaring success for them. Also duty free (oddly, even within the EU) is a big hit with them I hear. I have also heard that the pilots have to pay for their own type rating and refresher training - I would believe the first but not necessarily the second. And O'Leary - love him or hate him - is a master of public relations; he turns every complaint into an opportunity to state that there is a reason they are the cheapest.. And those that complain still flock back... So he is (or was) doing something right.

Hi Aldo, Many thanks for taking the time out to plan a flight and provide advice. I was estimating about 10 hours flying time (hoping to get an Archer for the trip - prefer to have the extra 20 horses under the cowl than a PA28); Also happy with a 172, but would prefer the Reims Rocket variety for the same reason and they are very few in between. There is a Cherokee 6 (300HP) that I can lay my hands on, but the school that owns it is quoting 130kts cruise and the extra cost to carry an extra 2 empty seats is not worth it. The benefit, though, would be that it has been beaten up less than those used for ab initio or at least Nav flight training... Interesting to know that a EFB requires a backup - either paper or another EFB. We don't technically require one over here, however, I almost always have a paper map marked up and I update progress on it as I go. Maybe time to get another tablet (prob go Samsung this time - I am not really an Apple fan). 7500' sounds about right over the ranges. I would love to have that lattitude here (well, in the South East of England bird cage, the highest is around 5,500 ceiling and even over thr channel, the airspace is so fragmented, it is not worth going over 6,000', VFR anyway). Cheers, J

Of course, I could simply buy the requisite VTCs and WACs and do it as I did it 25 years ago! I sort of know the way, anyway... and I would always check NOTAMs and weather, regardless of what the flight planning software told me.

What I like about skydemon is, I can develop my flught plan on my latop/desktop with a bigger screen and mouse/keyboard and then save ti the cloud to be downloaded to my ipad/phone later. I find this very convenient compared to using an ipad for the whole thing and means I can zoom into the map but still have a decent amount of it displayed, along with NOTAM updates, etc. I think command software will let me do it, although its charting and features, particularly graphical representations, look remedial.. still working through it..