AM397 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I hope this is in the right place, if not, please move it and tell me where it should have been Anyway, I wonder what the differences are between having a VH registred plane and an RA registered one? For instance, what am I allowed to maintain myself? Can I change oil on both types of registers? Can I change a tyre? Brake pads? Am I allowed to fly night VFR in an RAA plane (i.e. taking off just before the break of dawn?) in both types of planes? Any other differences I need to know? What if I went for some maintenance certificate on the type of plane I own (will own), would I then be allowed to do more on my own plane? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 RAA = no NVFR or Aerobatics. Another option is that you can do your PPL without a medical cert > RPL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AM397 Posted November 13, 2012 Author Share Posted November 13, 2012 RAA = no NVFR or Aerobatics. Another option is that you can do your PPL without a medical cert > RPL. Thanks, FT, What limits (compared to a PPL) would an RPL entail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 With RAAus you can do quite a lot of maintenance on your own plane if it is not used for training. With GA you can do some maintenance on a plane you are endorsed on. You can change tyres if the job does not entail complete jacking of the plane. Maintain spark plugs and batteries, replace globes, oil and air filters. change or replenish oil, lubrication which does not involve dismantling. replace hydraulic fluid, do the daily inspection and also an inspection of the control system. Plus a few other things. have a look at CASA site, look at CARs 1988 42ZC (4) Brake pads I am not sure about. There is no annual registration fee for GA, nor is there any need to join and maintain memberhip of RAAus. You will need a medical, but I have just got a drivers licence medical which allows me to fly day VFR No aerobatics with 1 maximum passenger in a plane with a max AUW of 1500lbs. Night VFR will only be allowed with a class 2 medical in a GA plane. The class 2 means you have to go to a Designated aviation medical examiner (DAME) for a check up. He will charge you and CASA will then also charge $75 for processing. The medical cost and processing cost would just about equal the rego and membership fee for RAAus, so financially there is not much in it. The big cost difference could be the cost of annual inspections and rectification for a GA plane. If you are having to think about these costs, you probably would not be able to buy a modern GA plane so you may get more performance and better electronics with a RAAus plane. Look at a well equiped RAAus plane and you will see that the navigation and communication gear is much better than the usual C150 or PA28. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AM397 Posted November 13, 2012 Author Share Posted November 13, 2012 Well, I have found that I just don't like surprises. Money is always worth considering, regardless of it being well within my means or not. Ongoing costs is something to consider, of course, but that is not the reason I want to do a lot of maintenance myself. It's simply because I love doing things myself without having a logistic nightmare to overcome. In any case, I'm trying to make heads or tails of what I'm allowed to do and not allowed to do, and to a certain extent, that will probably be the deciding factor. I'm allowed certain things with a certain medical and VH plane, whereas I'm allowed other things with an RA-Aus plane/certificate. For instance, the 1 passenger maximum might be a deal-breaker since I want to take my daughter and my gf (the mother of our daughter) on small and/or longer trips. I will read the CARs 1988 42ZC (4) you mention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nunans Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 RA rego is definately 2 person on board maximum. I understand that VH experimental can be maintained by the owner if the owner was also the builder. But everything else VH is left with atleast the 100hrly/annual and anything else more serious is left to the LAME. I guess that's why some VH planes can be bought for much less than RA planes. I don't own a VH plane so this is all just my understanding, someone who knows the costs first hand is welcome to chime in.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgmwa Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 RA rego is definately 2 person on board maximum.I understand that VH experimental can be maintained by the owner if the owner was also the builder. But everything else VH is left with atleast the 100hrly/annual and anything else more serious is left to the LAME. I guess that's why some VH planes can be bought for much less than RA planes. I don't own a VH plane so this is all just my understanding, someone who knows the costs first hand is welcome to chime in.... You don't need to be the builder to maintain a VH experimental, but only the original builder who has done the Maintenance Procedures Course (or the nominated builder in a partnership/group build) or a LAME can sign off the annual/100 hourly. VH with a driver's licence medical still allows access to controlled airspace, but then you can only take one passenger, even if the plane could take more. You can fill more than 2 seats if you have a PPL. rgmwa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ave8rr Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 There is no annual registration fee for GA, nor is there any need to join and maintain memberhip of RAAus. You will need a medical, but I have just got a drivers licence medical which allows me to fly day VFR No aerobatics with 1 maximum passenger in a plane with a max AUW of 1500lbs. Yenn, I think you mean 1500Kgs MTOW. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burlc Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 You will need a PPL for more then 1 passenger. If your interested in buying a plane get it before training and pay for the instructer only which should save a few bucks, Maybe ? If it was me id get a 3 seater and aerobatic like the Fugi so you can have a cruiser for journeys and a aerobatic plane for the afterwork excitement. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AM397 Posted November 13, 2012 Author Share Posted November 13, 2012 LOL, I think I will stick with just a single plane. Preferably a tailwheel-one, if at all possible I guess it's a PPL for me then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgmwa Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I'd suggest holding off any aircraft purchase until you've done a fair bit of your training, whether RAA or PPL. It's quite likely that what you think would suit you now will not be what you want later. Also, rather than buying an expensive 3-4 seat aircraft, think about getting a 2 seater which is all most people need 80%-90% of the time, and then hire a larger aircraft for longer trips or taking the family somewhere (assuming you have a PPL). There's also no reason why you couldn't build your own aircraft. Plenty of choices if you go that route, and then you can do all the maintenance you want (or feel comfortable doing). rgmwa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68volksy Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 As usual there are trade-offs. If you're happy and confident/competent enough to do your own maintenance, only want to carry 1 passenger and are happy flying purely in VFR conditions outside of controlled airspace then you really meet the most pure definition of the RA-Aus pilot. If you're not wishing to do your own maintenance or aren't confident/competent enough (more like me in other words) and want to carry more than 1 passenger, would like access to controlled airspace and would like the possibility to undertake NVFR/IFR's or pursue commercial avenues then it's GA all the way. The GA "RPL" sits a bit in the middle with only 1 passenger, someone else maintaining your aircraft and some other limitations. I think the RPL was predominantly brought in to stop forcing experienced GA pilots to move out of the aircraft they're most familiar with and into RA-Aus aircraft. I agree very much with rgmwa though - certainly do not buy an aircraft until you have a good understanding of the real costs and time involved with all the different options available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandit12 Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 The ball park figure tossed around seems to be that if you do less than 100 hours per year, it is not financially viable to own your own aircraft. Certainly with the maintenance costs on an older GA aircraft, you are probably much better off hiring. Or buy into a syndicate perhaps. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AM397 Posted November 14, 2012 Author Share Posted November 14, 2012 Thanks, everyone, I will wait to buy till after I have my PPL. I don't think I want to buy into a syndicate, nor do I necessarily want to consider whether it is financially viable. It costs what it costs to have the option to fly (well, within reason). I don't want to hire either, other than if absolutely necessary. I'm hypersensitive to a lot of things - lingering detergent from people's clothes and perfume to name but a few. I almost cough my lungs out when I'm exposed to that sort of thing, although some detergents and perfumes are worse than others. So, to me, it's either owning "something" or not likely at all. I note that I can't do maintenance if on an RPL, so it has to be PPL. I'm quite good with tools and excellent at fault finding on a broad spectrum of things, but I'm willing to pay my way out of things I don't feel confident I can do (I won't solder fine electronics, for one). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 you need a tornado, pushers rock! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloper Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Goodaye all l am building with GA rego in mind as experimental. Will be allowed to go to full load in the Couger and take 4 passengers. Through the SAA l will get my maintenence ticket to maintain it myself. When l loose my PPL l will still have a RPL sdo l can still fly it. One of my sons is also a builder and may get his maintenence ticket as well. Hoping to keep costs right down and have a plane available for my children. Should also point out the psycological aspects of building, you time in the garage and taking pride in something you built. (But saying that somepeople should not build there own plane) regards Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AM397 Posted November 14, 2012 Author Share Posted November 14, 2012 I'm not sure I want to build a plane, although something like the carbon cub wouldn't go amiss. I mean, I love doing things that end up as something, but I'm already going to build a house to passive house standards in a foreign (to me) country, so I think I have my hands full in that regard. Especially since I'm a perfectionist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 If I where starting from scratch again I would get a PPG then go for a RAA Drifter, if you still have money left over get that PPL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgmwa Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Goodaye alll am building with GA rego in mind as experimental. Me too. Will be allowed to go to full load in the Couger and take 4 passengers. Err... where is the 4th one going to sit, or won't you be taking a pilot? Through the SAA l will get my maintenence ticket to maintain it myself.When l loose my PPL l will still have a RPL sdo l can still fly it. Hoping to keep costs right down and have a plane available for my children. Should also point out the psycological aspects of building, you time in the garage and taking pride in something you built. My thoughts too. I failed the `keeping the costs down' test, but so far so good with the rest. (But saying that somepeople should not build there own plane) regards Bruce Or at least not try to fly it. rgmwa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AM397 Posted November 14, 2012 Author Share Posted November 14, 2012 I have some money. It's more a question of priorities, really. The funny thing is, that if I'm not allowed to build the house I want, or if I'm not granted the visa I want, I will actually have more money to do good with. I mean, if I'm only allowed to build a cottage, or - the horror - not allowed to build at all, being a foreigner and all, or if they won't allow me to spend 6 months a year or more down there, I won't have those expenses. So, I'm currently in a very long-term process, spending my time considering a lot of things, reading up on Australian Standards, and how I can build it to Passivhaus standards while make it fit to meet AS (i.e. termite barriers, plumbing, electrical stuff etc.). It's not like AS is particular high, it's the minimum, it's just that a passivhaus is quite a bit different, so a lot of minute details has to be considered. My plan is to be able to have a plane registered down there, so I can leave it there when I leave the country for periods. I fully intend to pickle the engine etc., so it' won't just stand and rot. It's a lot of work, but I enjoy all of it, so it's just a big mountain to climb, one step at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 you will need a lot of money to build and fly here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AM397 Posted November 14, 2012 Author Share Posted November 14, 2012 you will need a lot of money to build and fly here... Much less than building and flying here in Denmark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 The latest I have on maintenance, which came from CASA today is that if you have built an experimental plane, then at some stage buy a similar plane, you will be allowed to maintain that similar plane. The similarity they quoted was building an RV4 and you could then maintain an RV8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ave8rr Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 The latest I have on maintenance, which came from CASA today is that if you have built an experimental plane, then at some stage buy a similar plane, you will be allowed to maintain that similar plane. The similarity they quoted was building an RV4 and you could then maintain an RV8. Yenn, I was advised by CASA a few months back that if you build the plane then your name is on the build certificate but if the aircraft is sold then CASA's intent is that you should not be doing maintenance on that aircraft for the new owner. I have heard it being discussed in SAAA circles that an engine will not be able to be maintained by the builder unless that builder did 51% of the engine assy. Hmmm we will see. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AM397 Posted November 15, 2012 Author Share Posted November 15, 2012 Oh, thanks Yenn, but when we talked about "building" in these last couple of posts we were talking about building a house. It's great you put the information there, though, as I didn't know that (among many other things I don't know). It actually surprises me quite a bit. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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