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Hangar Doors


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From memory, there's one like this at Temora. It's the hangar at the very end of taxiway Charlie. I was looking at the electric winch setup while waiting for a forum at Natfly a couple of years ago. Give Carol Richards a call to put you in touch with the owner?

 

 

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Not to be a wet rag but speaking from a bad experience. A set of doors 4 off to cover 18 meters weigh come out at nearly 850 kg the real problem is the structure required to keep the deflection within reasonable limits across the span and support the doors. I had to convert a set of doors to bottom track from top track for this very reason plus beef up the opening with tie bars and collar ties as the company supplying the shed had a engineers certificate that was not worth the paper it was written on.

 

This is why if you look at the photos of this style of door the frame is all structural members not Lysaght C sections IE converted farm sheds.

 

Gary

 

 

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Not to be a wet rag but speaking from a bad experience. A set of doors 4 off to cover 18 meters weigh come out at nearly 850 kg the real problem is the structure required to keep the deflection within reasonable limits across the span and support the doors. I had to convert a set of doors to bottom track from top track for this very reason plus beef up the opening with tie bars and collar ties as the company supplying the shed had a engineers certificate that was not worth the paper it was written on.This is why if you look at the photos of this style of door the frame is all structural members not Lysaght C sections IE converted farm sheds.

 

Gary

Thanks Gary. I'm starting to think that bifolds or stackers might be the way to go. I don't need the whole 18m to open up. 15m is probably enough. I've seen quite a few good looking options but again not that many in Aus. Although I'm guessing there are plenty of companies that can engineer something like this without too much trouble.

 

 

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The doors don't have to be totally supported by the structure as they can run in tracks but they get full of crud. Your total span has to clear your biggest wingspan comfortably, though for a one off you can manoeuver bigger wingspans through if you are careful. 12 meters might be close to suitable. Wind loads have to be catered for with hangars, so make sure the design is done properly. Nev

 

 

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The doors don't have to be totally supported by the structure as they can run in tracks but they get full of crud. Your total span has to clear your biggest wingspan comfortably, though for a one off you can manoeuver bigger wingspans through if you are careful. 12 meters might be close to suitable. Wind loads have to be catered for with hangars, so make sure the design is done properly. Nev

You're probably right Nev. This is at our property which sports enough room for a 750ft strip at a 10% gradient, so it's really only ever going to be suitable for a certain type of plane. Even having to accommodate STOL wings, it looks like the vast majority of designs are under 12m. So maybe 4 3m sliding doors would do the trick and be a lot cheaper.

 

 

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Made my own doors as they are awfully expensive to get someone to do.

 

18m gapX 4.6m high. 2 X 3m "fill in" panels at each end. 3 x sliding doors covering about 12m.

 

Used Eltrak running gear/fittings and frame from 100X50X2mm patio tube. Inside supports 76X38X1.6mm patio tube.

 

Weight taken by floor rails fixed ontop of concrete.

 

I was told by my shed builder that Eltrak fittings and rollers are really good but their frames thin and flimsy...

 

Made the width of my doors to suit full sheets of trimdek.

 

Looked at a bi-fold door from NZ. Was hell expensive. In the end they didn't want to give out concrete/mounting specs and thought it was the builders responsability.

 

 

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I have 4 sliding doors on my 15w x 18 deep hanagar. Had lots of dramas with the shed builders. They did the hangar build great but totally stuffed the doors up. 4 times they had to come out and fix them until I would sign off on the build. They ended up converting from top hung to bottom rollers. Much better to keep the weight on the doors and not the shed itself. The fittings and rails and rollers are all Eltrak...but the doors are NOT Eltraks they were designed by the shed designers and are a bit stronger...sort of than the Eltrak versions

 

Mark

 

 

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DGL David on this forum builds sheds/hangers. It might be worth talking to him.

 

I was talking to him about this not long back. I got the impression that the type of doors you are looking at there come in at about 1/3 the total cost of the Hangar. That may not be exact but as a ball park figure it might not be far off.

 

 

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I have 4 sliding doors on my 15w x 18 deep hanagar. Had lots of dramas with the shed builders. They did the hangar build great but totally stuffed the doors up. 4 times they had to come out and fix them until I would sign off on the build. They ended up converting from top hung to bottom rollers. Much better to keep the weight on the doors and not the shed itself. The fittings and rails and rollers are all Eltrak...but the doors are NOT Eltraks they were designed by the shed designers and are a bit stronger...sort of than the Eltrak versionsMark

Hi Mark. My hangar is 12x12 and the doors were designed as top roller but the design couldn't hold the weight so they put bottom rollers on as well, the door came off the tracks in a slight wind, so after more modification the top rollers were removed and guides fitted, the doors are better but I would prefer a stronger shed with top rollers.

 

My shed builders drove me crazy and was not a good job, my other hangar was much better but the doors were lighter with top rollers and guides on the bottom.

 

 

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We are going with bottom rollers on our hangar/shed (when I get around to welding them up) our neighbours had a top roller setup (well built too) and we had a huge wind that ripped the top rollers out of their track and threw the door out and over the nearby powerlines. It was an eye opener to me considering the door was flush fitted to a panel with only a 30mm gap and no protruding parts but still the wind managed to grab it, I'm not sure how our bottom rollers would fair in a similar wind.

 

 

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Will catch up soon then Geoff

 

Camel

 

Mine were ok hung from the top except the stupid workers for the shed guy obviuosly didnt know what a string line was. The 2 unistrut rails at the top were like a dogs hind led it was shocking. I still have the 4 wheel skates in the top but the weight has been adjusted off them so they work just like the single guide roller now. There is a lot of weight on the tracks and bottom rollers now but I am going to put a couple more barrel bolts from the bottom of the doors to go into the concrete. They are only on one end of each door I am going to put them on both ends of the doors so they cant move. The tracks I have are like a upside down round so they fit nicely into the wheel. I will post some pics tonight when I get home. The doors are much better and very strong they survived cyclone marsha which the eye went to the west of my farm about 50km so it was a good test and no movement or damage. There are a couple of spots where the top rail does take some weight I will need to fix that but I was just glad they were now safe and I would fix it properly. The quicker I got rid of the builders the better I was

 

Mark

 

 

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SDQDI bottom rollers are fine just make sure you barrel bolt the bottoms of all doors at each end and the bolts go into the concrete about 50mm if you can. The doors then have to lif a hell of a long way to come off at the bottom

 

 

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David- The 15 meters of span is better than 18 but its a large span were the goal is to keep the deflection to say 20 mm. Unless very carefully designed opening in Lysaght rolled section is will not man enough particularly the columns at the opening as they proved the restraining moments by having enough bolts to create the necessary clamping force while having enough flange to remain vertical.

 

With regard to shed company's you are dealing with used car salesmen. I have in a previous life been involved in engineering design and was left in the fetal position dealing with these people.

 

I had to reinforce my door after discovering a 70 mm sag in the middle and a distinct hog at the top of the column and they wanted me to hang another 800 kg's worth of door, what I got was it all your fault and good luck. Luckily they had supplied two doors worth of steel that was reassigned based on my design experience and I still have to resign the doors to run on bottom tracks. I got burnt big time with the doors and its the door that a hangar makes.

 

Do not use Maxi Sheds the shed is OK the door design would rate a failure at engineering 101.

 

What I am saying to all is hand them the whole package and stand back and have a good contract and even better lawyers .

 

 

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David- The 15 meters of span is better than 18 but its a large span were the goal is to keep the deflection to say 20 mm. Unless very carefully designed opening in Lysaght rolled section is will not man enough particularly the columns at the opening as they proved the restraining moments by having enough bolts to create the necessary clamping force while having enough flange to remain vertical.With regard to shed company's you are dealing with used car salesmen. I have in a previous life been involved in engineering design and was left in the fetal position dealing with these people.

 

I had to reinforce my door after discovering a 70 mm sag in the middle and a distinct hog at the top of the column and they wanted me to hang another 800 kg's worth of door, what I got was it all your fault and good luck. Luckily they had supplied two doors worth of steel that was reassigned based on my design experience and I still have to resign the doors to run on bottom tracks. I got burnt big time with the doors and its the door that a hangar makes.

 

Do not use Maxi Sheds the shed is OK the door design would rate a failure at engineering 101.

 

What I am saying to all is hand them the whole package and stand back and have a good contract and even better lawyers .

I hear what you're saying re shed companies. I haven't decided the best way to go yet. Option one is Olympic industries shed and then organise the door myself. Option two is a local company that custom make the whole thing. They also do all the engineering and work directly with council. They seem to know what they are doing, but a fair bit more expensive. We're talking about a 18 x 36 x 4.2 shed and trying to keep the whole thing under 100k, so it's looking like Olympic Industries might be the only option.

 

 

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You might with no floor and sliding doors with bottom tracks bare bones. To stay in budget it will have to be a converted farm shed as structural steel will hit 175K and you will have to do the erection yourself. From experience 15 meter clear opening would be the minimum to offer maximum flexibility by being able to fit a Cessna at 11 meters span. My hangar has a 16 m x 3.4 m opening

 

 

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What sort of money are you looking at for these doors please?

Well the total project I'm trying to keep under about 100 to 120k. That includes concrete floor. It's actually a 3 purpose hangar so to speak. The whole structure will be 18 x 36 but only the end third ie 18 x 12 will be a hangar. Another 18 x 12 section won't need a floor. So concrete will be 18 x 24.

Sounds like the horizontal bifold doors are expensive and can create issues, so it's probably going to be easiest to do sliding doors with the bottom rail as others have suggested.

 

 

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Well the total project I'm trying to keep under about 100 to 120k.

I can get it done partially or the whole thing done for you here. One of my cities expertise is higher quality steel structures and I'm hooked up with a couple of very good factories - by any World standard, forget the 'Made in China' nonsense.

 

I would be very keen to offer my time as large hangars are something I'm keen to get into, already had a number of inquiries from the US.

 

 

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Concrete for mine 18 x 15 = $32000 slab / $8000 apron plus survey certificate $1000 / Inspections $1800 / Council Fees DA Fees $800 / Engineers Certificate [ inc building] $4000. All have to be done as the council will not grant permission to occupy if done under a DA

 

Do the homework and get some budget quotes per m2 from a local concretor and the shed builder. For erection you will need to allow for a crane with rigger, scissor lifts to access the steel work {$1200 / week] to do the connections.

 

Do a budget and get the some of the shocks on paper first and like building a aircraft, just stone it to death with money.

 

 

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I was quoted $16000 fitted, for the doors to mine by the builder. Got the feeling it was a hassel for him, so he priced accordingly.

 

I probably built them for $6000 or so paying retail for the steel. Not engineered but sh*tloads of steel in them and freakin heavy.

 

As mentioned before, they need to be secured well. A hassel undoing half a dozen door bolts but better than them flapping around in the breeze.

 

 

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