Guest ozzie Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Don't see the guys in the helicoppters asking my permision to check the power wires at 100ft on my property Make sure you check your notams they will have one for low flying when in your area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Baa Baa Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Make sure you check your notams they will have one for low flying when in your area. They even put it across the local radio stations and say if you don't want them flying over your property because of livestock such as horses you can request they do the checks from the ground. But I'll bet that would be a condition placed by CASA so I guess they own the airspace or atleast control it right down to ground level and they have more money than me so I have no will to take them on to find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Who owns or controls the airspace? Now, with my Bush Lawyer hat on (free advice worth just what you paid for it) I found the following:The Traditional View of Land - “Cuius est solum” – the person who owns the land owns it from the heavens above to the centre of the earth below – presently that right is severely constrained by lots of other laws (tree clearing, mining, Council by-laws, Noxious weeds, Right of Entry etc) Transient intrusions are considered trespass Eg. Bullet being fired over land although has made no contact with land; Davies v Bennison Permanent intrusions into airspace above the land can constitute trespass without consent of the owner eg. power lines. This premise allows you control trespassing tree limbs (trim or lop) even though you don't own the tree. Height limitations, so that trespass can only be found where ‘the intrusion into airspace is of a nature and at a height that may interfere with the occupier's ordinary uses of the land’. So I guess if your land was the Empire State Building you would control a lot more air than a pond. I have heard of people trying to stop aircraft above their place (usually celebs wanting a quiet wedding without paparazzi) and failed. There are laws that allow aircraft to transit the airspace above your land, so you can’t stop airlines flying their routes. You can drive an unregistered car on your land because the law only says it must be registered on public roads (and some other places). You can’t fly an unregistered plane because the law says Australian Airspace, and everything above the ground qualifies. It looks like it is a myth that you can fly what you like under 300ft or 500ft. Sue Hi Sue Well done! :-) Cuius est solum sort of went the same way as Terra nulius...In its case it was a common law principle that got whittled away to next to nothing by statute law. Terra nulius was the basis for lots of statute laws that whittled it away until it was restored by a new common law (Marbo). CASA wins all arguments. It has deep pockets and redrafts the law to suit itself as needed, anyway. I can't remember the last Minister who actually kept them in line and their latests effort with Part 91 is a prime example. kaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerin Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Don't see the guys in the helicoppters asking my permision to check the power wires at 100ft on my property Yes....how do the power companies get past the 500ft permission rule? We've also had a helicopter land on our property momentarily for a magnetic survey (for mineral exploration). We got a letter in the mail warning us this may happen...but no permission was sought. How do they get past the permission requirement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne T Mathews Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Yes....how do the power companies get past the 500ft permission rule? We've also had a helicopter land on our property momentarily for a magnetic survey (for mineral exploration). We got a letter in the mail warning us this may happen...but no permission was sought. How do they get past the permission requirement? If it is easier to ask for forgiveness than permission, then why would they bother asking for permission? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingVizsla Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Yes....how do the power companies get past the 500ft permission rule? We've also had a helicopter land on our property momentarily for a magnetic survey (for mineral exploration). We got a letter in the mail warning us this may happen...but no permission was sought. How do they get past the permission requirement? Probably covered by laws that limit your rights to your land. The idea of being solely responsible for what happens on your land has taken battering in recent years. Some of it lay in legislation that had remained "dormant" as the use it protected wasn't exercised (eg mineral resources), some in by-laws that were not enforced (eg permission to build a shed on rural land) and some is newly minted. Farmers in the resource rich areas are finding the State Govt has laws that allow a mineral exploration permit to be issued over their land, geologists, drill rigs and surveyors to come and go at will and mining companies announce plans for hectares of your land. They might let you know what they are doing out of courtesy, not necessity. Rural power lines run across private property and the power company has rights to enter and inspect or maintain them by land or air. A Council I worked for had By-laws on things like Temporary Housing (a suite of By-laws issued by the State Govt), but chose not to enforce it due to the nature of their rural townships. Years ago it was accepted that if you lived on a farm you could build as many houses, sheds, airstrips and the like, as, when & how you liked. Now my Council is wanting Development & Building Applications and knocking some back on zoning & environmental grounds and requesting hydrology and engineering reports. Most of this is State Govt law, so it will be different where you live. My anecdotal observation is that as our population increases the rights of the individual are being subjugated to the many. A good thing in some ways - one person no long holds up an important Govt project - but bad in that it is much harder to establish something like an airstrip on your own land. Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 ...how do the power companies get past the 500ft permission rule? Endorsement We've also had a helicopter land on our property momentarily for a magnetic survey (for mineral exploration). We got a letter in the mail warning us this may happen...but no permission was sought. How do they get past the permission requirement? As Sue said above, State laws in particular have limited individual rights over the years. Farms and pastoral properties can be entered and surveys done with little or no contact with the owner if their purpose is minerals exploration. kaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerin Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 If it is easier to ask for forgiveness than permission, then why would they bother asking for permission? I don't particularly have a problem with them flying low over our property, and I'm happy for the electricity guys to inspect lines...less chance of fires, blackouts etc. But I do wonder about big corporations bypassing the laws most of us have to live by. I know it's usually for the "greater good" and all, but still.... And thanks Sue (edit: and Kaz) for those observations. I think it goes to show that we have limited "ownership" of our land. Rather, it's probably a bit like copyright in that we are buying a licence to use our land for approved purposes until the Government decides it has a better use for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerin Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 My anecdotal observation is that as our population increases the rights of the individual are being subjugated to the many. A good thing in some ways - one person no long holds up an important Govt project - but bad in that it is much harder to establish something like an airstrip on your own land. One day I am planning to have a 800m x 10m trial plot on my property with which I will testing the viability of growing short grass and seeing how it will stand up to constant mowing. It may be that such a trial plot will be found essential now and then for conducting precautionary landings with an aircraft that I am flying... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I don't particularly have a problem with them flying low over our property, and I'm happy for the electricity guys to inspect lines...less chance of fires, blackouts etc. But I do wonder about big corporations bypassing the laws most of us have to live by. I know it's usually for the "greater good" and all, but still....And thanks Sue (edit: and Kaz) for those observations. I think it goes to show that we have limited "ownership" of our land. Rather, it's probably a bit like copyright in that we are buying a licence to use our land for approved purposes until the Government decides it has a better use for it. Back in the late 70's I purchased a station in the Upper Gascoyne, WA. Wild and wonderful. One day I drove the 4WD as far up on the Bangemall Range as I could get way behind the homestead. Climbed the rest of the way (hard work) and looked over the jumpup at my home and station shedding far below. Nothing else human as far as the eye could see. Marvellous. I thought it likely I was the only white person to have ever seen it. Then I turned around and tripped over a CRA mining peg! kaz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Isaac Posted January 28, 2012 Author Share Posted January 28, 2012 Don't see the guys in the helicoppters asking my permision to check the power wires at 100ft on my property Of course power line companies have an easement over your land for that purpose and that easement allows them unfettered access, including flying below 500' because they own the easement and you signed it over to them as did everyone else who has power and telephone lines on their land. For the greater good of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Back in the late 70's I purchased a station in the Upper Gascoyne, WA. Wild and wonderful. Then I turned around and tripped over a CRA mining peg! kaz Could have been a bag of McDonalds rubbish, that stuff seems to be there before anyone actually gets there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Isaac Posted January 28, 2012 Author Share Posted January 28, 2012 Could have been a bag of McDonalds rubbish, that stuff seems to be there before anyone actually gets there. Nice Avatar Steve ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theUGlyDuckling Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 So could I erect a mast of some description 300 or 500 feet on my own property?That would probably be a Council issue. Now if I jumped from a platform with a hang glider on my own property??? The mind boggles as to who really owns that space. Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poteroo Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Agree with the view of Kaz re the owner not strictly controlling the airspace above their property. CAR 157 applies no matter how else you look at it. ie, an aircraft can be flown over your property at any height, (due stress of weather), and if this aircraft were to collide with an unregistered craft whilst so doing - I believe the landowner/unregistered craft owner, would be in hot water. happy days, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 So could I erect a mast of some description 300 or 500 feet on my own property?Now if I jumped from a platform with a hang glider on my own property??? Alan. Reminds me of the pragmatic French response to the early parachutist who died after testing his equipment by leaping from the Eiffel Tower. They imposed a requirement that there be an area clear of people at the drop zone! Kaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 CASA is responsible at law for aviation safety. They took a PYA decision when they legislated to control the ultralights and the lower airspace in which they flew. Requiring an owner's permission is part of their limitation of liability. Kaz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 The first two hundred feet above my place is owned by Winchester 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pudestcon Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 The first two hundred feet above my place is owned by Winchester Do you want to put that to the test turbz? Pud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 There's an Aerochute guy offering to do that Sunday mornings Pud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farri Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Then I turned around and tripped over a CRA mining peg! kaz kaz, Off topic but reading your post reminded me of this! A while back, I climbed this spectacular single rock formation that overlooked a beautifull gorg...The challenge getting to the top made me feel like I was going where no human had been before me. I got to the top and what did I find?... A couple of empty beer bottles! Frank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Probably thrown out of a passing car. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guernsey Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Probably left there by a passing 'Drifter'. Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pudestcon Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 kaz, Off topic but reading your post reminded me of this!A while back, I climbed this spectacular single rock formation that overlooked a beautifull gorg...The challenge getting to the top made me feel like I was going where no human had been before me. I got to the top and what did I find?... A couple of empty beer bottles! Frank. The God's really must be crazy eh? Pud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 My sister lives in the flightpath to the RAAF airbase in Richmond (NSW), one of the last houses at the end of the runway. Planes fly so low over her house that I can see the individual rivets, probably 100 feet AGL. Does she own the airspace? ...and can she charge a fee for every 'airspace property tresspass' that occurs?? It would help with her mortgage payments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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