shafs64 Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Yea i have seen a video where there was a midair and the s22 was floating down under its shute on fire very sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 In a 3 axis aircraft you never really lose control. it has some natural stability and the wing will do things for you unless it is stalled and that has nothing to do with speed, only to do with angle of attack which YOU control with the joystick. Trust the plane and learn how to fly it in unusual attitudes Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerme Posted June 6, 2012 Author Share Posted June 6, 2012 I haven't come across the horror stories yet, but there appear to be quite a number of BRS success stories. For instance: from my research Ive read both positive and negative about BRS, I read not long ago that a pilot said flying is more dangerous than riding a motorcycle?(he not jumping big enouh!!),also same pilot said he had to use his BRS twice in 2 different planes,and he swears by them.But then I read about some nasties , most common was ,chute opening by itself cousing death and serious injury,,also they are High maintance apperently..I can not comment on thenm as I only know what ive read,,but out of my price range,,I know what your thinking,"how much is your life worth" well about $8000 apperently. and then theirs the hight thing,what if you enjoy ploding along at 1000 ft,,the BRS is useless.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerme Posted June 6, 2012 Author Share Posted June 6, 2012 H In a 3 axis aircraft you never really lose control. it has some natural stability and the wing will do things for you unless it is stalled and that has nothing to do with speed, only to do with angle of attack which YOU control with the joystick. Trust the plane and learn how to fly it in unusual attitudes Nev[/quotethanks Nev,I recently had some guests stay,Mark Reddin,he flies a 4 seat jabi all over Australia including tasy,he also flies mk1 and mk2 quicksilver. whilst talking he made a good point saying when your out all alone ,its hard to push yourself and hard to know (without exsperiance) how far to push,its easier having some one next to you exsperianced on type ,or even when its a lil single place ,would be nice to compare to another..so you tend to hold back somwhat..does that make sence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerme Posted June 6, 2012 Author Share Posted June 6, 2012 went up this morning small x-country,wind was 6.6 knott est/sth/est,mild turbulance below 700ft but smooth above, head wind had me at 65kms ground speed at 50knt asi and tail wind had me at 107kms at 50 knot asi,but aproach was rough..really rough encounted a lot of sink and tail waggle but I felt confortable after all the good advice and the thruster is flying perfect..awesome feeling of accomplishment and building my "Bump Tolerence" slowly but surly...its a non event in the Supercat with its sensitive controls.....I fly that pretty much anytime of day..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 from my research Ive read both positive and negative about BRS, I read not long ago that a pilot said flying is more dangerous than riding a motorcycle?(he not jumping big enouh!!),also same pilot said he had to use his BRS twice in 2 different planes,and he swears by them.But then I read about some nasties , most common was ,chute opening by itself cousing death and serious injury,,also they are High maintance apperently..I can not comment on thenm as I only know what ive read,,but out of my price range,,I know what your thinking,"how much is your life worth" well about $8000 apperently. and then theirs the hight thing,what if you enjoy ploding along at 1000 ft,,the BRS is useless.. Well Flyerme, There have been know saves with a BRS under 300 ft depending on the type of aircraft of course. I have a BRS on my trike and the only reason for that is I had an extremerly close encounter with 4 ibis one day coming out of a turn and one missed my leading edge of the trike by less than a foot. I had flown over 400hrs in trikes without a chute and never worried about it or my capabilities but that near miss got me thinking what my life was worth, the chute was purchase for $6400 including the mounting bracket for the XT912 only for the unseen things that can get us. I have no intention of ever pulling the handle unless I have 1/ a structural failure, 2/ a mid air/ 3/ if i become incapacitated or feel like i am going to, 4/ flying over inhospitible terrain with no options if the fan stops. The only chute i have ever heard of self activating was on a trike which was just fitted with the chute many many years back, but it infact was activated as the pilot fitted the handle to the control bar and when he pushed forward to take off he activated the chute by the cable being stretched to activation point. (yes there have probably been cases of a chute not firing also) On the BRS brochure is stated that the chute won't activate in a fire, a heavy landing, it will if you snag the activation wire. I hope never to use it, but if i do and it works it will be the best 6 grand i have ever spent, if i pull the handle and it doesn't, well you will all know my last thoughts (I have been carrying this 12kg anchor around for years and i will be cussing BRS all the way to the ground). The way i look at it is it can give you a second chance if something was to happen. (a second chance is better than none) I bet there are a lot of people not with us now who used to bag the brs wish they had one at the time of their demise. It all depends on how you value your life, me 6 grand is nothing as my earning capacity is far greater than that, if it saves me it saves me, if it doesnt it does't but that i will only know if and when i pull that handle. Note: I always fly with the safety pin out and the chute armed, I see no point in having a chute if you fly with the pin in as if you are coming down after whatever reason out of control the g forces will prevent you probably removing the safety pin as it is a fiddly thing to get out in any case. (you have a greater chance of reaching or feeling for the larger T activation handle than a 4mm x 25mm sized pin. That's my blurb on it, I'm not saying everyone or anyone should have one, it's all up to the induvidual. Cheers Alf 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Also I don't fly one bit different with the chute fitted than I would without one. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I hope never to use it, but if i do and it works it will be the best 6 grand i have ever spent, if i pull the handle and it doesn't, well you will all know my last thoughts (I have been carrying this 12kg anchor around for years and i will be cussing BRS all the way to the ground). The way i look at it is it can give you a second chance if something was to happen. (a second chance is better than none) I bet there are a lot of people not with us now who used to bag the brs wish they had one at the time of their demise. It all depends on how you value your life, me 6 grand is nothing as my earning capacity is far greater than that, if it saves me it saves me, if it doesnt it does't but that i will only know if and when i pull that handle. Eloquently said, Alf! I fully agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cscotthendry Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Its a 400 acre burnt/stubble paddock backed to a herritage scrub with quarry. always has some wind devils run across it,.. There's your Devil right there in the quarry. With all the bare rock heating in the sun, they generate quite substantial thermals. I avoid those and bare rock mountains/hills wherever possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerme Posted June 7, 2012 Author Share Posted June 7, 2012 There's your Devil right there in the quarry. With all the bare rock heating in the sun, they generate quite substantial thermals. I avoid those and bare rock mountains/hills wherever possible. headed to my other strip at Peake this morning an decided to fly out to the peake sand hills,situated 3 kms nth of peake and as soon as I approached the sand hills ,I encounted major turbulance so headed back to calmer air..lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shafs64 Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Well Flyerme,There have been know saves with a BRS under 300 ft depending on the type of aircraft of course. I have a BRS on my trike and the only reason for that is I had an extremerly close encounter with 4 ibis one day coming out of a turn and one missed my leading edge of the trike by less than a foot. I had flown over 400hrs in trikes without a chute and never worried about it or my capabilities but that near miss got me thinking what my life was worth, the chute was purchase for $6400 including the mounting bracket for the XT912 only for the unseen things that can get us. I have no intention of ever pulling the handle unless I have 1/ a structural failure, 2/ a mid air/ 3/ if i become incapacitated or feel like i am going to, 4/ flying over inhospitible terrain with no options if the fan stops. The only chute i have ever heard of self activating was on a trike which was just fitted with the chute many many years back, but it infact was activated as the pilot fitted the handle to the control bar and when he pushed forward to take off he activated the chute by the cable being stretched to activation point. (yes there have probably been cases of a chute not firing also) On the BRS brochure is stated that the chute won't activate in a fire, a heavy landing, it will if you snag the activation wire. I hope never to use it, but if i do and it works it will be the best 6 grand i have ever spent, if i pull the handle and it doesn't, well you will all know my last thoughts (I have been carrying this 12kg anchor around for years and i will be cussing BRS all the way to the ground). The way i look at it is it can give you a second chance if something was to happen. (a second chance is better than none) I bet there are a lot of people not with us now who used to bag the brs wish they had one at the time of their demise. It all depends on how you value your life, me 6 grand is nothing as my earning capacity is far greater than that, if it saves me it saves me, if it doesnt it does't but that i will only know if and when i pull that handle. Note: I always fly with the safety pin out and the chute armed, I see no point in having a chute if you fly with the pin in as if you are coming down after whatever reason out of control the g forces will prevent you probably removing the safety pin as it is a fiddly thing to get out in any case. (you have a greater chance of reaching or feeling for the larger T activation handle than a 4mm x 25mm sized pin. That's my blurb on it, I'm not saying everyone or anyone should have one, it's all up to the induvidual. Cheers Alf I would have to agree that if you are going to spend big money on an aircraft another six grand for a second chance is nothing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Ballistic parachute is a good option if your alternative is being forced to land into trees. I think they sell well in the US due to the mountain country and numbers of pilots flying at night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Ballistic parachute is a good option if your alternative is being forced to land into trees. I think they sell well in the US due to the mountain country and numbers of pilots flying at night. FT, They sell well in the USA because they are made there, and cheaper, like way cheaper even when our dollar was comparitive to the US we would have been paying more, I think in the US they are about 3600 for a BRS 1050 like I have on my trike. Also there is an issue now with getting the rocket into country. I think the chute is a good option for any second chance, my theory is if it works it's a bonus, a bonus spin of the wheel I wouldnt have if I didnt have one fitted. If it doesn't work, then most likey I'm only going to know that until I hit the ground where it will probably all go black and the pain will go :-) Alf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I have spoken to a few RAA flight instructors and they consider them a gimmick!?!, my Tornados came with them so no worries about gettting them into the country. You can get them in by surface OK just don't go through a Fedex or UPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I have spoken to a few RAA flight instructors and they consider them a gimmick!?!, my Tornados came with them so no worries about gettting them into the country. You can get them in by surface OK just don't go through a Fedex or UPS. Thats fine for those who think they are a gimmick, I bet every skeptic will wish they had one of those gimmicks on if the unforseen catches them out and they are spiraling in to their demise. Each to their own I say, ive got one and i'm happy with my decision and all I have to worry about is me, I'm the most important person in my life and the rest come second. Alf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I am happy to keep mine too... flying into trees is a bit of a gamble but if you are a long way from help it could be very fatal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boingk Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 BRS a gimmick? Wonder what they think about parachutes for pilots... are they a gimmick, too? I would definitely fit a BRS on my craft if/when I buy one, and would certainly consider a personal parachute if I could not easily do so. I'm definitely into second chances. - boingk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerme Posted June 7, 2012 Author Share Posted June 7, 2012 I remenber back in 2004 when I first thought of getting one for the bunyip,it was $4500 and back then still just out of price range,I recently looked at one for the supercat and was quoted (on line u.s quote) $7600 posted,unfortunatly still out of my carrer's pension price range..I also thought about an old school chest pack, but then I think you might get those thoughts ..do I jump ?or can I ride this beast to the ground? I just read a story about a Brittish Bomber found in the saharah desert,the ocupents bailed out but one fellars parachute did not open and he fell do his death but the plane continued another 20 miles before landing on the desert floor with only minor damage. I think if money wernt an issue we would all proberbly have BRS,, hey maybe a goverment grant should be in place? or even a pensioner discout?lol also I love getting first hand advice on this here forrum instead of reading myths,misconceptions,etc.. you boys and gals convinced me ,if ever I should win lotto(thatll mean using presious fuel money for a ticket) I'll buy one.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Also there is an issue now with getting the rocket into country. Another issue is that the rocket only has a limited life, a "use-by" date so to speak. I read (on another thread in Rec Flying) that there's a guy in Victoria who sets up BRS systems powered by a powerful spring rather than a rocket. He even converts rocket systems that have reached their use by date to the spring system. I had a look but I can't find the thread where this was mentioned any more. BRS a gimmick? Wonder what they think about parachutes for pilots... are they a gimmick, too?I would definitely fit a BRS on my craft if/when I buy one, and would certainly consider a personal parachute if I could not easily do so. I'm definitely into second chances. - boingk Aviation is all about second chances. That is, for instance, why there are two ignition systems, and why there are often secondary fuel pumps, etc. I'm with you, when I get around to building my aircraft, I'll be fitting a BRS system (even if it only has a spring instead of a rocket) because I like second chances too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 I remenber back in 2004 when I first thought of getting one for the bunyip,it was $4500 and back then still just out of price range,I recently looked at one for the supercat and was quoted (on line u.s quote) $7600 posted,unfortunatly still out of my carrer's pension price range..I also thought about an old school chest pack, but then I think you might get those thoughts ..do I jump ?or can I ride this beast to the ground? I just read a story about a Brittish Bomber found in the saharah desert,the ocupents bailed out but one fellars parachute did not open and he fell do his death but the plane continued another 20 miles before landing on the desert floor with only minor damage.I think if money wernt an issue we would all proberbly have BRS,, hey maybe a goverment grant should be in place? or even a pensioner discout?lol also I love getting first hand advice on this here forrum instead of reading myths,misconceptions,etc.. you boys and gals convinced me ,if ever I should win lotto(thatll mean using presious fuel money for a ticket) I'll buy one.. Flyerme, If your beast is controllable to a degree ride it to the ground, if it is uncontrollable and you had a chest pack on I would bail and try my luck on that as you got nothing to lose only something to gain if it opens in time, if it don't open same end result. I'll hold this to you, if I win lotto I WILL buy you your BRS just because I can and you would like one and you seem a nice fellow with a passion for aviation just like me:-) Alf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 You are probably both NICE fellows who love aviation but there are those out there who do not wish to avail themselves of this safety device, who may be nice fellows/gals too. I believe they should all make their own decisions and not be criticised for it either way. There are pro's and cons for it. It is not completely safe especially for the potential rescuers and there are quite a few situations where it is not effective.. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 You are probably both NICE fellows who love aviation but there are those out there who do not wish to avail themselves of this safety device, who may be nice fellows/gals too. I believe they should all make their own decisions and not be criticised for it either way. There are pro's and cons for it. It is not completely safe especially for the potential rescuers and there are quite a few situations where it is not effective.. Nev Nev. I'm not bagging anyone, never have (not saying that you are insinuating it) and yes there are nice fellows and gals out there without them and yes there are pro's and cons for them as I have said all along each to their own. Alf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 I just use one of my old skydive round reserves and old container reasonably light and thin. I'd only use it in a real bad dire straights situation. I have possibly three alternatives of action given certain altitudes. The standard jump clear and pull above 500', lower than that, undo seat belt, point and fire pilot chute into clean air and don't get hung up on the way out. And really low just point and pull. It might be my lucky day. Suspended load would barely double. No mater what type of BRS or backpack/ chestmount they at least give you that second option. Recommended reading, "Into the Silk". If you have ever wondered what to do in many different given situations of bailing out of an aircraft to save your life then this book of the Caterpillar Club must cover the lot. Also has a very short list of those that managed to pull it off without a parachute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerme Posted June 8, 2012 Author Share Posted June 8, 2012 Flyerme,If your beast is controllable to a degree ride it to the ground, if it is uncontrollable and you had a chest pack on I would bail and try my luck on that as you got nothing to lose only something to gain if it opens in time, if it don't open same end result. I'll hold this to you, if I win lotto I WILL buy you your BRS just because I can and you would like one and you seem a nice fellow with a passion for aviation just like me:-) Alf fingures are crossed...sure would make the wife happier..lol much appreciated,take it easy,and just on turbulance,took off this morning at 11:30 and devils were out again,it was wind shear and very vilent, incredible sink and no smooth air any where just a constant dropping of wings and sinking,the thruster handeled fine but approach was made with left stick and left rudder to hold her on line but the sink was the most ,Ive encounted here, all the way down , even in ground efect... was only 6knott and 5 degrees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Imagine being seated in the back of a plane that, while flying at 33,330 feet, blows up in mid air. Imagine that after being knocked unconscious, you later wake up on the ground and in much pain – but alive. That is precisely what happened to Vesna Vulović, who holds the Guinness Book of Records for having survived the highest fall without a parachute Vulović was a flight attendant on the DC-9 JAT Flight 367 (above, one year before crash), which exploded after a terrorist bomb was placed on board January 26th, 1972. Vulović suffered a fractured skull and three broken vertebrae which left her temporarily paralyzed. She was in a coma for 27 days, but eventually was able to recover completely. Vesna even returned to flying, admitting she wasn’t afraid of flying because she “didn’t remember anything after take-off.” Source: http://sometimes-interesting.com/2011/06/29/falling-from-airplanes/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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