kaz3g Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 FT said: You are far more likely to forget to remove your pitot tube cover than accidentally deploy your chute... So what checks do you do after the throttle has been pushed home to the firewall and before the wheels leave the ground? kaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Moore Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Lots of people do check for active airspeed on the gauge as soon as they roll. Problem for people like us is Kaz, by the time your eyes shift from runway to ASI, you're airborne!!!! Personally I try to glance over RPM, ASI and Oil Px quickly just to make sure all is still good. Thats 90% of my gauges too so it's about all I can do!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Great I just saw this after posting on the other thread. Oh well.LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted June 9, 2012 Author Share Posted June 9, 2012 Lots of people do check for active airspeed on the gauge as soon as they roll. Problem for people like us is Kaz, by the time your eyes shift from runway to ASI, you're airborne!!!!Personally I try to glance over RPM, ASI and Oil Px quickly just to make sure all is still good. Thats 90% of my gauges too so it's about all I can do!! Yep... I call "Airspeed indicating" and check rpm then tell my pax we are lifting off (if I have one). I check oil P & T's before I hit the throttle because I need to keep my head outside the cockpit as much as possible at this time, and confirm once I am established in the climb. I suppose the important thing, in response to FT's comment, is that it's a good idea to know you have an operating ASI beofre you leave the ground. Does you Auster have a water drain in the pitot, Louis? Mine does and it's a great idea because the pitot tube is angled down when the aircraft is at rest and water can poll at the elbow. kaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compulsion Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Probably a newbie question but if you have lifted off and find you have no ASI how do you land safely without risking stalling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Moore Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 PULL THE BRS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No seriously it has happened to me about 5 times in the past (and I will ad NEVER due to pitot covers, well actually once it was but that was an automatic cover opened by the wind like on early 150!). As you get more familiar with aircraft you can really feel the stall coming on and get used to how it should look/feel/handle etc on the approach. To be honest my landings where the best when ASI was out!!!! And it was not as stressful as I thought it would be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest turk182 Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Probably a newbie question but if you have lifted off and find you have no ASI how do you land safely without risking stalling? You should have your instructor teach you how to fly using attitude not an ASI, the aircraft will have the same attitude for a given configuration , so in practice if you have full flap ,1500 RPM and 65 kias the aircraft will have aproximatly the same attitude , there will be minor differences with C of G changes but generally you will get on the ground without dramas, but, again have an instructor go through this with you Turk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted June 9, 2012 Author Share Posted June 9, 2012 Probably a newbie question but if you have lifted off and find you have no ASI how do you land safely without risking stalling? Hi John That's why Louis and I both check the ASI before lift off. If it fails in flight and you don't have a GPS to give you an approximation, then you have to rely on engine rpm and attitude alone. Remember all those times your instructor insisted you set the aircraft up in the proper attitude? Fly your circuit as usual and try to keep things looking as normal as possible. Let someone know... Your radio hasn't failed so call up the airfield or ATC or another aircraft in the vicinity. And fly the attitude. Kaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Probably a newbie question but if you have lifted off and find you have no ASI how do you land safely without risking stalling? Knowing the aircrafts Stick stall position would help John and do not go passed that postion with the stick. Dont panic, use the sight picture out the windsreen.By that I mean, keep the horizon level in the windsreen where it normaly is while climbing, flying straight a level and decending .Same as throttle setting (RPM) While flying S&L, Climbing etc.In a open cockpit the wind noise will help you know what speed you are doing. Wind noise is also heard in a enclosed cockpit but not as easily.Other things to look out for is A-Sloppy controls, you are getting real slow, or stiff controls, you are going real fast. Remember DO NOT PANIC and fly the aeroplane by above and feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I like the hinging self opening cover. At West Maitland we used to get wasps closing up the pitot, and many got a chance to do a circuit without airspeed indication. You fly by attitude and anything else that you have going for you. Wind noise, sloppy controls etc but actually you have to allow a margin on the high side to be safe. Most people who I have observed usually do carry a fair bit of extra speed. I don't blame anyone for doing this but flare a bit lower and be prepared for a longer than normal hold off to bleed speed back. Be aware of how much runway you have left and if it looks marginal give it away and go round. Fly the whole circuit using normal power settings, and pitch attitude, keep everything as "normal" as possible. Sometimes it will only be part blocked and will indicate erroneous speeds. This is more dangerous than no indication. IF you can't trust the airspeed, totally disregard it. It will distract you and you may muck it up badly. It is not dangerous if you don't panic. A lot of this is repeating Dazza38, but I have mentioned a couple of extra factors which I have personally experienced. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compulsion Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Mental note to self. Practice practice practice and oh yes carry my ipad. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Check that I am running straight. Check ASI. Get tail up so I can see where I am going. If tail doesn't come up I am not going, Feel what is happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I was going to do what Yenn has done but the thread seemed to settle on not having an airpeed indication which is a significant consideration in it's own right. I check the power is in the proper rev range..... carb heat cold. ( I advise checking carb heat cold anytime the throttle is opened fully, then you won't miss it). Airspeed indicating and aircraft accelerating normally (No brake drag).. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandit12 Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Static revs Oil and temp in the green Airspeed alive and increasing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted June 9, 2012 Author Share Posted June 9, 2012 ...snip...Airspeed indicating and aircraft accelerating normally (No brake drag).. Nev Never known an Auster's brakes to drag, Nev, but I'm sure it's a good idea <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/o4oOhumKco4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> kaz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Once you've pushed the throttle foward, the only thing that matters is engine RPMs. You need to have sufficient to aviat (get off the ground !) safetly, if not, abort the take off. You should already have checked oil pres and everything else at start-up during run up, and mag checks. Losing airspeed in flight is not a big deal if your familiar with the aircraft. If no airspeed 'alive' on roll and you've got the runway, by all means pull her up and remove the bugs !. I've done several 'no airspeed' landings due various problems with no dramas...you just stay a little hot that's all. At my home field of Montpelier, I realy need to watch out for wallabys flushed out from the grass, after the power comes up. One morning I had four pass in front of me, and I was really praying there wasn't a 5th !!!.... The ag-pilots working with the big loads on take-off, are only interested in one thing,...engine RPMs...........................Maj.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pudestcon Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I ain't 'checking ' anything, but I'm monitoring lots of things. My checking has already been done before I push the throttle fully open. What am I monitoring? How about, RPMs climbing, tail up, watch that swing (keep aircraft straight), airspeed - when at 40kts+ I'm looking for lift off, any turbulence to counter, steady airspeed indication and RPMs on climb out, and probably a multitude of other things as the situation dictates and that happens automatically. I have had no airspeed indication only once on take off - with an instructor on board - and I will never not check the airspeed before lift off again. He talked me through the circuit and indicated what other indicators to look out for, such as RPMs, attitude, altimeter trends, and the 'general picture out the front'. It was actually a very useful experience, come to think of it, I should practise some now with the air speed indicator covered. Another time on take off I encountered severe turbulence (on reflection, probably a willy willy I did not see) just at lift off, that picked me up, lifted a wing (it felt like the wings were vertical), and had me fighting to get level and back on the ground in one piece. Given that I was very low hour solo on the Thruster I decided to put it away and try another day!!! I look out for any willy willys now, and any other turbulence as well. Pud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 The thruster would have to be one of the worst aeroplanes for IAS failure to happen in (IMHO). Very little difference in climb, cruise and approach speeds, but big difference in attitude. Nasty if your not up to speed on the type. IAS failure practice is a must. One of the more common things is for it not to fail completely but rather, read erroneously. Water in the static vent (common on jabiru's) will cause erroneous readings. This is a far more dangerous problem then if it fails totally. Another got ya is a sticky ASI. If it sticks on a speed slightly above your appch speed, you could find yourself pulling the nose up to slow down. If in doubt of the ASI at all, ignore it. Remember this simple rule.. Power + Attitude= performance. Full power, and the nose in the climb attitude, and the aeroplane will climb normally. Idle, and the nose down, pointed at the threshold, and it will decend. You WILL not stall the wing with the nose pointed down towards the threshold from a normal looking appch. Horizon high in the windscreen, stick position well away from the stall position and your in business. Its one of my favorite "failures" to pull on students and pilots. In fact, if a pilot is chasing the speed around with the nose (common in pitchy types likes sport stars and piper sports) covering the ASI and learning the "picture" soon fixes the problem. I also like to simulate multiple failures, first of all the engine, then some instruments, flaps etc..all one after the other so you end up gliding, flapless with no ASI, VSI alt etc.. Good fun :) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryon Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Interesting thread... On TO I only check for rotate speed and Vfe and then best rate of climb ASI Once setup for landing on late downwind, it is all attitude with the occasional glance to ensure I am maintaing 65-70 knots ASI until over the threshold and flaring Works for me, what do others think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil_S Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Interesting thread...On TO I only check for rotate speed and Vfe and then best rate of climb ASI Once setup for landing on late downwind, it is all attitude with the occasional glance to ensure I am maintaing 65-70 knots ASI until over the threshold and flaring Works for me, what do others think? Yep - pretty much what I do (without the Vfe check as I'm in a Gazelle ).... Cheers Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howard Hughes Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Probably a newbie question but if you have lifted off and find you have no ASI how do you land safely without risking stalling? Pretty simple really, just fly the power settings and attitudes that you normally would for where you are in the circuit, you would be surprised at how close you can get! For me the checks after advancing the throttles are: 'autofeather armed', 'props governing', 'power set', 'airspeed alive'. Setting the power and checking the airspeed being pertinent to every type I have ever flown! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerin Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Being low hours I must admit checking that airspeed is alive is about the only check I can spare the concentration on between throttle and liftoff. This is probably silly, but I've always wondered why you couldn't calibrate the elevator trim for airspeed. A given trim should result in a given airspeed (or more accurately trim=AoA). If you somehow marked your trim indicator/lever for approach speed (or cruise, or climb), when ASI failed, you could dial in approach speed on your trim and use power to control attitude. Would that work? I'm guessing spring/bungy trim might not be accurate enough to be able to get the same trim each time you put the lever in a certain position, but trim tabs should be reasonably good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Anything helps Powerin but the ATTITUDE is king. The attitude related to the power you have on .= same airspeed (weight remaining the same) Trim is used to remove control forces at the desired airspeed and power setting. You don't usually FLY the plane on trim. It's considered the wrong technique You CAN though, and sometimes you may be able to land the plane using it ( in an emergency) On larger aircraft the trim will be set at a figure which considers the CofG, and weight so that the trim will be neutral at lift-off speed. This is probably what you would want to happen in most aircraft. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 I also like to simulate multiple failures, first of all the engine, then some instruments, flaps etc..all one after the other so you end up gliding, flapless with no ASI, VSI alt etc.. Good fun :) Motz I am so glad to read this, this thread was starting to make sound like very few are getting important training like this. During my training I was put through consecutive circuits with all flight instruments covered up, then with the gradual introduction of further failures such as flaps. It culminated in an engine failure on late cross wind with a return to the strip I had taken off from for a no instrument, flapless, engineless, downwind landing. Did all this have me sweating - YES. But was I having fun - Hell Yeah!!! More important though was the confidence that I gained in knowing that even with all the failures if you just fly attitude and power and don't panic it will all work out just fine. I would have thought that all student pilots should be getting training like this, but unfortunately I know that many are not.... Back on topic - I check for active ASI. I have had an issue in past with a dragging brake so a mental check that acceleration feels normal and no abnormal pull to either side confirms that issue is not present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howard Hughes Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 It culminated in an engine failure on late cross wind with a return to the strip I had taken off from for a no instrument, flapless, engineless, downwind landing. Sounds like my last sim check! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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