shags_j Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Don't poke the bear... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne T Mathews Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 If it's a "bear" the guys are poking Shags; A/ what the hell is he doing in that position? And B/ Let's do whatever it takes to get rid of him. If he doesn't respond positively to poking, then he'll have to be shot. I don't know about you, but I'd rather not have a "bear" running my organisation, thank you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 The worst outcome for those among us that want to question the "way things are" would be if members dont vote (be it for or against) by proxy or dont turn up at the AGM. As David says, the A.C.T Legislation that bounds our association is very clear that for the vote to succeed 75% of those who vote must vote in favour for the resolution to succeed. As I have said before it is my opinion that your vote whether for or againt is the most important thing. You have the opportunity to be a part of the decision, or to sit on the sideline and either ignore in entirety (the Ostridge approach) in which case you have left the fate of your freedoms entirely in the hands of others, or feeling enough about this to complain about those vocal trouble stirers but not enough to actually vote. (I think of this group as those who feel disempowered but really aren't). In the odd chance that any readers of this thread have yet to vote please make sure you become part of the decision. The greater the involvement in the vote and the AGM the greater chance that what will happen does represent the membership needs. My personal hope is that this set of changes (and the AGM) becomes the best attended and greatest participation rate vote that has ever occured within RAAus. If we achieve that I will be ecstatic. If the sense of involvment and ability to be part of the major decision making by normal members extends beyond this AGM to the usual voting around appointment of board members then that has to be for our overall betterment. The usual participation rate is so low when compared to the membership numbers that the ability to adversely affect an outcome is available for anyone who feels strongly enough to try it. Finding/forcing an extra 10 votes among firends and supporters should not in general be sufficient to drive an agenda but at present I believe it very easily could affect the outcome. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Shags, you do understand the issues which have been continuing to develop over the past 18 months? And you are happy with it? And you don't think anything will happen? (Well other than those kids who were instantly grounded, oh and those guys with 24 registration which ooops has become 19 and forget it if the aircraft was bought for training) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Isaac Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 ......The usual participation rate is so low when compared to the membership numbers that the ability to adversely affect an outcome is available for anyone who feels strongly enough to try it. Finding/forcing an extra 10 votes among firends and supporters should not in general be sufficient to drive an agenda but at present I believe it very easily could affect the outcome.Andy To add some perspective to Andy's very valid comment ... if you are concerned that a handful of members could actually have a significant effect on governance and you are worried about that aspect ... think again because at the moment this whole sordid affair of manipulation is at the agenda of a handful of Board members and they do NOT communicate with the members let alone each other in what appears endemic dysfunctional behaviour. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 David is correct I guess you could argue that the we could be seen to be doing what I warning of......The reasons that is not the case:- 1) I have argued that you should vote whether for or against. The reality is that if I encouraged you to vote and you were to vote against I need to find another 3 who will vote for, to offset. If I truely only wanted you to vote for then that is what I would say. 2) Anyone who asks members to vote,where there is a very low participation rate could be seen to be attempting to manipulate an outcome........I cant see how we can get around that. Its the participation rate that is the greater of the voting problem. If someone can solve that the rest as issues fall away and the association governance issues (at the heart of the problem) are then under the control of members as the A.C.T legislation intended. Member apathy destroys the validity of voting and as a direct result the ability of members to control their own association. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Let's be realistic and not over-diagnose. I don't think you have any chance of manipulating the outcome Andy - the hardest thing is to get people to actually vote. Apart from that you are quite entitled to put a case to fellow members and campaign for it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne T Mathews Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 KylePut the proxy down as "The RAAus 2012 AGM Chairman" with Address of RAAus HQ Canberra. There must be a chairman for the AGM to go ahead. Then FAX through to the RAAus Fax number 02 6280 4775 which is on the instruction page at the back of the proxy form (See post a few above by Wayne Mathews if you've lost your form and need a new one to print a new one quickly....Do it now tonight before the world interupts and you loose the opportunity :<) Andy Andy and David are putting in a tremendous effort to put the power and direction back into our, the members, hands. If you agree we need that, fill out your proxy and FAX it in today. If you don't agree we need that, fill out your proxy and FAX it in today. Either way, for it to be counted you'll probably need to, as Andy has said, "Put the proxy down as "The RAAus 2012 AGM Chairman" with Address of RAAus HQ Canberra." And then you're going to have to FAX it to 02 6280 4775, which is the number listed on the proxy forms. And you're going to have to do it before 10:00 AM Fri (21st Sept - tomorrow). If you haven't done it already, please print out the attached proxy form, fill it out according to the directions it contains, and FAX it in TODAY. Proxy_form_LJ_September 2012_final_2.doc Proxy_form_LJ_September 2012_final_2.doc Proxy_form_LJ_September 2012_final_2.doc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Isaac Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 And we truly want you you all to vote in favour of the special resolutions, let us make that very clear ... otherwise why would we have put them up. I am absolutely NOT going to shrink from that request ... LOL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 BVSAC October 2012 PDF https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B7HSEVzmPV8RQVVVX1BYOGNvZnc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Oops, I forgot I was able to vote ...I just faxed off my Proxy, 3 pages supporting each resolution and just in case pages 2 and 3 were confused on the receiving fax machine, I signed the bottom of each one so the office knew that pages 2 and 3 belong to my page 1 fax...I hope my signature in the bottom right corner on pages 2 and 3 does not null and void my voting 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horsefeathers Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Hmmm. Just a thought. I faxed my proxy in about 2 weeks ago, but was rung up the next day and asked to post the form in as well. Hope that there is no problem with these last minute faxes being accepted....... The young lady on the phone said that a fax wasnt acceptable, even thought it clearly states so on the front of the form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 BVSAC October 2012 PDF https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B7HSEVzmPV8RQVVVX1BYOGNvZnc Thanks FT, I'd forgotten about Google docs........and this is a much tidier version that the raw text cut and paste that I did.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Hmmm. Just a thought. I faxed my proxy in about 2 weeks ago, but was rung up the next day and asked to post the form in as well. Hope that there is no problem with these last minute faxes being accepted.......The young lady on the phone said that a fax wasnt acceptable, even thought it clearly states so on the front of the form. I think if they rule them out and they are pivotal then they will have a significant fight on their hands. As you say people using FAX are just following the instructions provided and that should be all that is required Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Isaac Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Hmmm. Just a thought. I faxed my proxy in about 2 weeks ago, but was rung up the next day and asked to post the form in as well. Hope that there is no problem with these last minute faxes being accepted.......The young lady on the phone said that a fax wasnt acceptable, even thought it clearly states so on the front of the form. Well how will the proxy issuer know if his form of proxy is disallowed. This is a serious matter that needs immediate clarification. If the form states faxing is acceptable, faxes must be accepted. Who the hell is advising people in that bloody office. This is a serious allegation and again is interfering with an electoral process, a potential Federal offense. Can someone please ring the office and get immediate clarification on this. I am in Canada otherwise I would make the call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Well get back here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne T Mathews Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Just spoke to Kim in the office and the FAXed proxies ARE being accepted. What Kim asked me to pass on though, is that she has received several faxes over the past week that have only been the first page. Those faxes have NO voting directions on them, so can't be counted. If you have only sent in the first page, please print out the attached form again, fill in the form again with your voting preferences included, and FAX all the pages (just to be sure) again. The Proxy form on page 3 is part of motion 4 and IS NOT valid yet, so please don't use it. You only have until 10:00 AM tomorrow (Fri 21 SEP 2012). Proxy_form_LJ_September 2012_final_2.doc Proxy_form_LJ_September 2012_final_2.doc Proxy_form_LJ_September 2012_final_2.doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Great Wayne. Each vote will count with the ratio you are facing so it would be worthwhile checking that your fax isn't one of the informals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Just spoke to Kim in the office and the FAXed proxies ARE being accepted.What Kim asked me to pass on though, is that she has received several faxes over the past week that have only been the first page. Those faxes have NO voting directions on them, so can't be counted. If you have only sent in the first page, please print out the attached form again, fill in the form again with your voting preferences included, and FAX all the pages (just to be sure) again. The Proxy form on page 3 is part of motion 4 and IS NOT valid yet, so please don't use it. You only have until 10:00 AM tomorrow (Fri 21 SEP 2012). But Page 1 does have the voting members details on it so why arent the office ringing the member and saying "hey your 4 page fax, we only got page 1 please send all 4 pages again......" Its not that hard! Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne T Mathews Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Oops, I forgot I was able to vote ...I just faxed off my Proxy, 3 pages supporting each resolution and just in case pages 2 and 3 were confused on the receiving fax machine, I signed the bottom of each one so the office knew that pages 2 and 3 belong to my page 1 fax...I hope my signature in the bottom right corner on pages 2 and 3 does not null and void my voting I just called again and checked on this too. It'll be fine, Ian. A signature on each page that is intended to identify the voter's preference sheets will not void the sheets. Common sense is prevailing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne T Mathews Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 But Page 1 does have the voting members details on it so why arent the office ringing the member and saying "hey your 4 page fax, we only got page 1 please send all 4 pages again......"Its not that hard! Andy I didn't ask that question Andy. But it does take time, and I can imagine that the girls are flat out down there at the moment, and any one page form may well be being filed in the round file as being invalid. When I sent my form in I numbered each page 1 of 4, 2 of 4 etc., and I signed each one as Ian did. Which Leanne just told me is valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 I am guessing the CEO is keeping an eagle eye on the fax. You have to wonder how many votes will go straight to the recycling? Maybe ask at the AGM how many proxy votes where invalid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Let's just be careful not to make any accusations before the election, and none after unless proven. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne T Mathews Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 I heard a rumour that Steve T. is pretty crook with shingles at the moment. So if it's true, he's probably not in the office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 I heard a rumour that Steve T. is pretty crook with shingles at the moment. So if it's true, he's probably not in the office. Poor bugger, you wouldnt wish that on anyone....I remember my grandfather having it and being thoroughly miserable for quite some time...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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