bilby54 Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Hi everyone, Over the last week I have managed to do around 30 hours of instructing and have seen some of the most unprofessional, dangerous and don't give a damn flying from all sectors of the flying commumity. There was only one incident from an RAAus pilot in a Jabiru that busted the circuit right in front of me, on the wrong frequency and then did a wonderfull display of dangerous aerobatics with a split arse turn onto final. The pressurised Cessna 210 at approximately 300' doing a right hand turn onto final against the circuit traffic. The Cessna something that had the Q Link Q400 Dash8 do a go around and a Piper Malibu that decided that due to "Operational reasons" would fly contrary to the other aircraft doing circuits and land on a collision course while I was still taxying. What is it with the poor airmanship that is happening around the regional airfields? I have reported these incidents to CASA as I am becoming worried for my well being while flying from a few idiots who don't care about anyone but their own precious self. Hiding poor airmanship behind "operational constraints" just doesn't cut it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 It's unfortunate, but I guess all we can do is keep an eye out for such people. Respect isn't a big attribute in people these days it seems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldo Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Bilby54, you might want to take a look at CAO 48.1 para 1.16!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilby54 Posted September 2, 2012 Author Share Posted September 2, 2012 I have reported it to CASA as I am sick of being targeted by idiots. I operate in a very busy airspace and manage to turn out students with a lot of co-operation from Q-link, RFDS and all of the crew change aircraft. We are not talking about low time pilots or the odd genuine mistake; these people are flying high powered aircraft and have a fair few hours to exercise that priveleged. I am over it quite frankly and do not have any hesitation about informing whoever that problems exist in regional centres. Just think of how you would feel if was you or a family member. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldo Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 I understand exactly what you are talking about, but you missed my point have a look at CAO 48.1 para 1.16, you might want to amend your original post to something like 30 hrs (mentioning it was a typo) or you could find yourself on the end of a report as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Whoops... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 I believe that there is a presumption that "50hrs of instructing" was all in the air.....As I recall there was a fair chunk of ground work to be done as well when I was taught... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldo Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 I believe that there is a presumption that "50hrs of instructing" was all in the air.....As I recall there was a fair chunk of ground work to be done as well when I was taught... You are correct, but from what I recall it was pretty difficult to see what was happening outside when you were in the classroom and if you are outside around the aeroplane your concentration should be with the student not gazing up in the sky. My point is why put in the number of hours if you are not talking about flying time. The limits apply to flight & duty time (flying and non-flying) have a look at the link and do the math yourself. http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:OLDASSET::svPath=/download/orders/cao48/,svFileName=4801.pdf I agree entirely with Bilby54 that the level of airmanship displayed by a number of pilots in all facets of aviation is poor, recently I almost got cleaned up by an RFDS King Air because he did not fly the approach he said he was going to (I was six (6) miles off the track he said he was going to fly) and I was talking to him on the CTAF frequency. When he went past me he was close enough for me to be able to see him clearly. If you are going to post something do not leave room for ambiguity otherwise you may find that your complaints about someone else apply equally to yourself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 At Caloundra yesterday morning I was entering runway 23 for takeoff and a Cessna called downwind he was directly in front of me....he was doing a left hand circuit for 23.........23 is right hand circuit only Obviuosly didn't look at the ERSA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Congratulations Bilby on caring, and saying something about it. If we let the culture slide, any one of us could be a victim. CASA were going to do some cleaning up about approaches contrary to wind/duty circuit, and I think got one of the majors to do some detailed retraining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerme Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 man all this reading makes me scared to land at an airport with traffic! I didn,t realise theres guys out there not givving a #$#$,,I thought we're ment to be looking out for one another?When I landed at Echuca there were 3 G.A planes doing circuit touch"n"goes,I called 10nm out and was replied to btyCessna $%$%^ clearing traffic pattern for lightwing,then the next Cessna and finnally at 5 nm out the Piper informed me out of traffic pattern lightwing clear..I was so relieved and had to thank them for the clearence.they contiued touch,n,goes for 30 mis after I called clear of runway.. ahh good guys thats for sure ,,now thats Airmanship I,m sure glad I havn't encounted some of these misshaps or it would really put a dent in an already bruised conferdence level.. been using ERSA and also descovered the airservices report in which told me that on all my destination strips all grass runways were out of service,lucky because Echuca had No unservicable markers out yet? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilby54 Posted September 3, 2012 Author Share Posted September 3, 2012 Thanks Aldo and yes it was a typo. I was just recovering from a dose of the shakes after someone else's arrogance and supidity. I am not in the business of 'putting people in' and usually prefer to talk to them but just recently it would have taken more of my time than flying :) If it had been some sort of emergency or a request then it would have been easy to deal with and we do it all the time but arrogance topped off with complete disregard for training aircraft rates very low in my book! Thanks everyone for listening to my gripe 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldo Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Thanks Aldo and yes it was a typo. I was just recovering from a dose of the shakes after someone else's arrogance and supidity.I am not in the business of 'putting people in' and usually prefer to talk to them but just recently it would have taken more of my time than flying :) If it had been some sort of emergency or a request then it would have been easy to deal with and we do it all the time but arrogance topped off with complete disregard for training aircraft rates very low in my book! Thanks everyone for listening to my gripe Thought it must have been as I've heard that you run a very professional operation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 At Caloundra yesterday morning I was entering runway 23 for takeoff and a Cessna called downwind he was directly in front of me....he was doing a left hand circuit for 23.........23 is right hand circuit onlyObviuosly didn't look at the ERSA I saw that happen a few times when I flew at Caloundra. Peeps not reading the ERSA, I suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 I fly into Roma alot for work in a -8 every second wednesday. The aircrew seem to do what they like from TOD to landing.I dont think they know what a circuit or correct strait in approach looks like. They are all over the shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 I fly into Roma alot for work in a -8 every second wednesday. The aircrew seem to do what they like from TOD to landing.I dont think they know what a circuit or correct strait in approach looks like. They are all over the shop. To give credit where credit is due. Our departure from Roma on wednesday 5th. Was IMO , text book. The captain (I know his name but wont mention it here). Flys to Brissy/ Roma sector quite regularly .He always does a nice job. Some of the others dont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevorp Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 If you fly in a area where there's RPT you sure need to on the alert for traffic, for even the pro's get it wrong. Having a radio scanner on back patio, i hear RPT jets and turbo props make a call on melbourne center at 30mile and then change to ctaf and make another call, it sure dont take long before they at downwind or on straight in final. Well one day a F50 turbo prop is making 30 mile call on melb centre twice [as soon as they made second call i thought then they have not changed] , then 5 mile call still on melb cen with intensions [they were coming in from the east to setup for a left base rwy 18], then they must have realised they had not changed to ctaf and then made call on local ctaf. So you really should make sure your monitoring both channels. A commercial helo pilot [bristows] was saying how he hates the RAAF jets, 30mile call and 4mins later they are there. The then airport manager was telling me how he believes RPT pilots are not that good when it comes to sorting out seperations if other traffic around, because he"s opinion is they generally have a controller telling them what to do , for that when it comes to doing it for themself, they are not that good. But i do agree with Dazza, you do get some that are very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tecsar Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 In the spirit of credit where credit is due, I was flying from Hervey Bay recently. On departure to the South East, after CTAF departure call, I made regular broadcast call on centre freq. A Qantas Link RPT quickly responded as being X miles to the South, inbound on descent from 10,000. A few minutes later, as I was listening on both Centre and CTAF, I heard the RPT make inbound call on CTAF, and informed me (yes, he remembered my call sign exactly) that he had me on TCAS and should be visual at my 1 o'clock. I quickly spotted him and reported visual and confirmed clear on CTAF. So at least this RPT flight crew were communicative, clear and helpful. Very similar thing happened also while inbound to Gladstone, again with Qantas Link RPT. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Funny you should mention Qantas Link at Gladstone, this afternoon I was working in a hangar there with a radio on. A Qantas Link Boeing 717 appeared over the threshold about to touch down with not a peep on the radio. This unanounced jet was still backtracking when a Virgin ATR-72 was turning final. I had heard 30 mile, joining & final calls from the Virgin so my radio was working fine. I can only guess that the Qantas 717 was on the wrong frequency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 My last four years of flying have been next to a gliding club. Gliders thermaling in the circuit and kamikze tug pilots make you wonder if there are any rules. One RFD pilot told me he came so close to a glider he could see the fillings in his teeth, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howard Hughes Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Great subject matter, but lets not confuse poor airmanship (as in the OP's examples), with human error (wrong frequencies, etc). While they can have the same dire consequences, there will always be some level of mistakes, even with two crew operations, poor airmanship (attitude) however, has no place in aviation! I also agree wholeheartedly, that reporting (and analysis) is very important. I would urge everyone to submit a report if you encounter any safety issues, without proper reporting, it is impossible to know where, or when a problem actually exists. PS: I think Tomo has nailed the cause of the problem in one! Respect isn't a big attribute in people these days it seems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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