cscotthendry Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 The recent loss of Riama and Des Porter and his passengers got me to thinking about the weather and flying. Weather is one of the great "unknowables" for me and I've read and studied what I could manage, about it. I know that RA-Aus has a great tutorial series about the weather on its website, but I've never got past the first few sections as the terminology is so dense, my head swims after a few paragraphs. This got me wondering: Is there a simple tutorial series on weather for pilots, or is there anyone who is knowledgable on the subject who would be prepared to either write a set of tutorials or give lessons? What I am thinking of is on the order of [insert picture of cumulous clouds] "These are cumulous clouds. Stay away from them if they're bigger than a certain size as they will suck you into them and rip the wings off your plane". [insert picture of stratus clouds] stratus clouds mean... Things like stay away from the lee of hills and mountains in strong winds. You know? Simple stuff set out in everyday language without all the "adiabatic winds caused by circumlocutive convective substrata terminoids". Is there anything like this for pilots or anyone prepared to create it? BTW, I looked through the forum topics and it appears that we don't even have a forum for weather. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandit12 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Here is your chance to make your mark - learn everything you can about it, read widely and rewrite it in accessible language. Put it together as a resource and go on the public speaking circuit (although you probably won't get rich ). Plenty of people become experts in fields who are really good at imparting the knowledge simply because they found it hard to understand at first and understand what others struggle with. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerme Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Theres a book called -Jim Davis PPL, you can but it online for about $110 from W.A bunbury?its expensive but well worth it ..it coveres everything including Met and is all in easy to understand lingo with detailed pics of clouds etc...I find it very usefull to keep going back to for reference.the Met section is very detailed.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxy Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 scott, one thing that might help you learn it a bit better is to study the information, as though you were going to give the lectures yourself. i was never the best at 'study and retention' until i did my instructor rating. i thought i knew as much as there was needed to be known, until it came to a point where i had to be able to present it to a new student, who knew nothing from the beginning, and have them fully understand what it was i was teaching them. if you set out ur study sessions as though you were preparing to explain it to someone else, maybe this might help you learn a little better. even if just a few aspects at a time. hope that helps :) liz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 "adiabatic winds caused by circumlocutive convective substrata terminoids".. I think my uncle had this uncomfortable condition a few years ago and a four-hour operation in a large hospital fixed the problem. I also heard that if you eat less onions, the problem can be fixed without the painful and costly operation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howard Hughes Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 adiabatic winds caused by circumlocutive convective substrata terminoids". "Semi-diurnal variation of pressure" is the one I always remember from MET. I still impress (read bore) people with that one at dinner parties!Also doubles to impress new recruits (also read bore), when you can accurately predict the changes to the ATIS!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 We once did have a forum for weather however it was very rarely used so the few threads were moved into General Discussion and the forum removed. We also had one for Navigation which also suffered the same fate. There are pages on interpreting the weather in the Weather part of the Resources section on the site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayavner Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 There was an article along these lines in this month's Sport Pilot, and I am glad to not be the only one who is thinking like this... in this day and age, I really can't think of any good reason not to have forecasts and reports in plain English. I can (sort of) understand the need to standardise the time with UTC, but really... how hard would it be to simply say "From 6 am UTC on the 24th, the winds will be from 240 degrees at 5 knots, temperature 18, dewpoint 8, visibility 8 km and QNH 1013. Possible turbulence below 5000 ft." I am sure I am missing some pedantic points, but you get the idea... As it is now, by the time i get to the end, i've forgotten the beginning! As the author of the article pointed out, there would not be so many apps and services offering to decode the weather info if it weren't a problem... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Decoding a forecast is not understanding weather. The international format gives information more relating to the suitability of aerodromes and alternate and holding requirements for same . Other data like MSL pressure charts are very useful if you know how to analyse them, and consider where the air is coming from . Ie if you are south of a low that is fairly deep, centred in the Coral sea you are likely to be experiencing high humidity and a lot of rain, that can just keep happening. Who talks of air mass analysis? I don't see much of that sort of thing in met exams. Adiabatic lapse rate and humidity have a lot to do with what happens. Wet and dry bulb temps will give you a lot of info on cloud base and likelihood of fog forming and satellite imaging shows cloud but doesn't categorise it . To understand weather you have to be aware of things like frontal movement and severity, areas of thunderstorm activity/hail development of large Cb associated with mountain ranges or convergence, significant weather that may affect your flight, fog turbulence strong winds for nav consideratio, endurance/comfort. Rain, Dust, or smoke from burning off. Cloud base and type over high ground. There is a big difference between having the appropriate information and getting the forecast and ticking the boxes. Meteorology is a big fascinating subject. Serious glider pilots must understand it and that is a source of good books on met. Australian meteorology is a lot different from european phenomenon, so what you learn has to apply to local conditions. One thing I have used many times is the cirrus cloud that is streaky and called "mares tails". always heralds a cold front that is normally about 300 kms away in southern australia and they are nearly always coming from the southwest. Local knowledge is not used these days to any extent as far as I know. The computer generated forecasts get unreliable a few days out. You can pick it making funny guesses at the msl prognosis, particularly when the pressure gradient is low. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayavner Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Well that is true Nev, guess I did get off on a tangent there regarding the forecasts etc. I would love some sort of book that could take all of the above and present it in an easier to understand, visual format! Obviously the deeper understanding could then be researched on specific topics of interest. But i would still think that while decoding the forecast may not be the same as understanding weather, nevertheless you need to understand what it is you have decoded - so why make that pat of it hard when the important part is IN the understanding? What happened here is an example - I got myself wrapped around the axle on the decoding bit, and completely missed the point of the topic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 I am the one off the topic but the "coded" thing has been contentious for many years now. My point is the disconnect between what you are supposed to do and how it works in the real world. ALL pilots will get into trouble at some time(s) in their life, with the weather, and it may end their life. How they handle the weather in flight is one aspect of it, and that can be treated separately. Understanding and being able to "comprehend" the FORM of the forecast, is one thing and understanding "weather" and all its ramifications for flight is something else. You could be very adept at the first without appreciating much about the second, which ,particularly with VFR flying and sometimes over long distances as some of our planes are capable of into remote areas where the normal sources of information are not adequate. In past times, actual briefings were available easily with well qualified weather people who had a very hands on knowledge of australian weather, and the pilots did too as many aircraft were unpressurised and not capable of flying above the weather most times, ( as is the U/L types now). One could mount an argument that this section of aviation is not trained or serviced adequately. It may never be so perhaps the general knowledge of practical weather for pilots needs to be increased. I don't know of any single book that would serve this purpose, but relate the need to similar to long distance glider ops. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boingk Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Flying for me is generally pretty basic. I don't like flying when its especially windy or in large crosswinds - I've taken both a Gazelle and a C150 to their manufacturers rated crosswind component of 20 and 15kt respectively, and can tell you I have no special desire to do so again unless absolutely necessary. My checklist is something like this: Airservices.com, log on and get area report. Interpret weather at location and destination. Print it out, go inspect aircraft, add any items needed (fuel, ELT, water, etc). Taxi, takeoff, go fly. Encountering any bad weather I'll either turn back or fly above/around it. You generally want to stay out from directly under large cloud layers of any sort as they produce turbulence. It may help to think not of what clouds are (water vapor condensing in the cool air) but what puts them there - rising warm air from below. This rising air is generally surrounded by cold, sinking air. As you fly under a cloud you'll hit the sink and then the rising air... then the sinking again, giving turbulence. I stay away from directly underneath large clouds for this reason. Thats my weather tutorial in a basket, with one exception; where you can, fly higher than 3,000ft AGL. You'll get a smoother ride, better safety margin and, more often than not, simply be able to fly above any troublesome cumulus cloud formations (they're generally 1000~3000ft AGL). As an added bonus you'll get a kick-ass view, feel like a champ and get an increased TAS due to the altitude. Don't try flying over a fully developed cloud layer for navigation reasons, but you can certainly fly above a broken one very safely. Cheers - boingk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cscotthendry Posted November 3, 2012 Author Share Posted November 3, 2012 boingk: Yep, that's pretty much my drill too, especially the part about not flying under cumulus clouds. Even the little buds of popcorn are sitting on thermals. I don't mind them so much but when they get bigger, I stay well clear. On Wednesday, I went up for a short flight and the clouds started forming quite quickly. I would have liked to have been able to predict that a bit better than I did. you can see from my video, the last 15 minutes of the flight (last minute of the video) that the clouds formed quite quickly over Watts Bridge as we were returning. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boingk Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Nice craft you have there but could not see the development of cumulus other than was already there. Cheer- boingk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cscotthendry Posted November 3, 2012 Author Share Posted November 3, 2012 Just at the end, the cloud off to the right got really dark. It rained shortly after we got the plane back in the hangar. It went from about 3/8 to 7/8 fairly quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Glider pilots love cumulus clouds because they are formed by moist warm air rising cyclonically until it reaches a level where the air temperature has dropped sufficiently to cause condensation. It's when they form into cumulonimbus that you need to watch out. These are the embedded thunderstorms that cause huge damage and destruction if you enter them. I came very near to being sucked into one many years ago near Euroa and it was a scary sensation going up at 5 knots with the nose pointed at the ground! (It did come down after a bit but it was very scary). Years later, I was fire spotting at Kangaroo Ground north east of Melbourne and calling a front coming through for local fireies. I watched two eagles thermal lint just in front of the line of Cu's and Cb's. one of them suddenly folded his wings and dropped towards the ground. The other disappeared into the Cb never to be seen again. I guess he came out sometime later - plucked and frozen! Nimbus and nimbostratus stratus are worse because they herald widespread torrential rain along with everything else. Mares' tails, Nev... Memories <sigh> and those little scalloped bits of cloud so high up also presage strong winds aloft. Kaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballpoint 246niner Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 The recent loss of Riama and Des Porter and his passengers got me to thinking about the weather and flying.Weather is one of the great "unknowables" for me and I've read and studied what I could manage, about it. I know that RA-Aus has a great tutorial series about the weather on its website, but I've never got past the first few sections as the terminology is so dense, my head swims after a few paragraphs. This got me wondering: Is there a simple tutorial series on weather for pilots, or is there anyone who is knowledgable on the subject who would be prepared to either write a set of tutorials or give lessons? What I am thinking of is on the order of You know? Simple stuff set out in everyday language without all the "adiabatic winds caused by circumlocutive convective substrata terminoids". Is there anything like this for pilots or anyone prepared to create it? BTW, I looked through the forum topics and it appears that we don't even have a forum for weather. Give me a call Scott- glad to help... Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cscotthendry Posted November 4, 2012 Author Share Posted November 4, 2012 I have to admit that I had you in mind when I wrote this. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 I have to admit that I had you in mind when I wrote this. CSH: ISBN No? Publication Date? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zibi Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 I've found this: Weather in Flying when looking for a book someone has mentioned in another thread. No idea if it's any good, but apparently the previous edition is recommended by FAA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 I've found this: Weather in Flying when looking for a book someone has mentioned in another thread.No idea if it's any good, but apparently the previous edition is recommended by FAA. It say, on the link, "This title has not yet been released." How long before that book's finished CSH? The publishers are waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zibi Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 Publication Date: May 6, 2013However there's a previous edition ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 I've found this: Weather in Flying when looking for a book someone has mentioned in another thread.No idea if it's any good, but apparently the previous edition is recommended by FAA. Hi Zibi, I have ordered a good second hand version of this book from Amazon and I look forward to reading this over summer. ETA = December. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark11 Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 Theres a book called -Jim Davis PPL, you can but it online for about $110 from W.A bunbury?its expensive but well worth it ..it coveres everything including Met and is all in easy to understand lingo with detailed pics of clouds etc...I find it very usefull to keep going back to for reference.the Met section is very detailed.. My favourite book- read it from cover to cover at least 5 times now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballpoint 246niner Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Hey Zib- "Stick and Rudder" was the first instructional text I read on flying- I found it in the library at 12 years of age and had about 30+borrowings stamped on the card by the time I was 15- we couldn't afford it then and no one had it any way. Grab them both, they'll change your life even if you only fly weight shift at the moment. Other great texts- Cross Country soaring- Reichmann( Amazon) Hang Gliding- Dennis Pagen. PPL- Jim Davis Never stop learning.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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