President Resigns ** Then Thinks about it **

[Macca274]

The Exec should be IMMEDIATELY SACKED and removed from the premises and the locks to the building changed TODAY.They are a complete and utter insult to all the ordinary members of the association. They are incompetent and are only concerned to their own wellbeing in the RAAus pecking order.

If you are a member of the exec and reading this undersdtand this, DCM, it means Don't Come Monday. We have plenty of ordinary members that are more than capable and better qualified to take over your positions.

 

on ya bikes

A tad harsh, I would have thought, ozzie!

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Not harsh enough.

 

 

[turboplanner]

A tad harsh, I would have thought, ozzie!

Thanks for your reply, Alf. :-) In answer to your questions. I don't consider myself in a position to 'judge' the merits of your comments. What is important is that it is your view and is as entitled to be voiced. The only criteria I set is A) is it truthful?, B) is it factual?, or C) is it reasonable?. Since you have given me no reason to have any doubts then I accept all of the above.As to the question of the Board Exec remaining in place, I believe that ought to remain unanswered until they have had the opportunity to answer questions as and when they are put. To pre-judge prior to that fails the fairness test. I do note that written responses to questions were incorporated into the minutes of the A.G.M.. For myself, I was satisfied with those responses with the rider that, I am not fully aware of the history (if any) between the parties or the full log of events leading up to the exchange.

 

I continue to inform myself with the help of other members so as to bring myself as fully up to speed with the issues as I can.

Macca, I was not being facetious when I said you should read all the threads. Unfortunately as much is serious issues became evident 18 months to 2 years ago, a lot of people reacted like you, assuming the situation was normal, and there was a brawl on this site which resulted in many carefully thought out posts being deleted. The actions of those people delayed the inevitable, until the situation now is that people like Ozzie, some manufacturers, and possibly some flying schools have been seriously compromised as a result of RAA failing four CASA Audits in a row.

 

Just that fact should tell you there's a major problem.

 

Going back to your comment about the Executive remaining in place until they have had the opportunity to answer questions, that really is the sore point of the whole affair - the Executive have made decisions, of which the members, who own the Association are not aware over and over again, and do not provide transparent answers acceptable to the members. In fact what has come to light on these threads in the form of hard evidence is quite shocking and likely to have further repercussions.

 

So since you are obviously sincere, my strong advice again is to read these threads.

 

 

[turboplanner]

A tad harsh, I would have thought, ozzie!

Macca, your criticism of Ozzie is GROSSLY unfair, I've put the broad framework in another post.

 

 

[turboplanner]

The Exec should be IMMEDIATELY SACKED and removed from the premises and the locks to the building changed TODAY.They are a complete and utter insult to all the ordinary members of the association. They are incompetent and are only concerned to their own wellbeing in the RAAus pecking order.

If you are a member of the exec and reading this undersdtand this, DCM, it means Don't Come Monday. We have plenty of ordinary members that are more than capable and better qualified to take over your positions.

 

on ya bikes

You could take a look at a Class Action against any individuals who have operated or are operating outside the Constitution. That would move them on and allow others to fill their place.

 

 

[kgwilson]

I don't believe any member of the Board (I prefer to call them The Management Committee) took on their roles as a personal power trip & certainly not for greed as they are all volunteers. Most of them have worked extremely hard trying to manage a totally dysfunctional organisation. Their lack of communication with the rank and file has been abysmal at best and allegations of secrecy and failure to account are blatantly obvious from a very basic scan of the constitution.

 

There have been comments from Committee Members that people should pick up the phone & call their local rep if they need to know something. How ridiculous when we have a website, the magazine and almost every member has an email address.

 

The problems are not new and the "We inherited" comments hold no water at all given the length of service of some members.

 

The issues are too big for a bunch of amateurish committee members to deal with. Working hard with your head in the sand is not going to make any difference at all. I hope with all my heart that the upcoming General Meeting can make a difference.

 

 

[Pete Greed]

Changing the culture of RAAus will require a re-look at our mission and governance and management structures, clearly defined strategic directions and a strategic plan, but, most importantly, cool heads. For many of us with experience in governance and management, (who have read most of the threads on this forum), we can achieve only a basic understanding of what the problems are - simple put, and IMHO, it is a culture of "club" thinking and acting, when something far more substantial was required. I played a bit of footy (Aussie rules) as a young bloke and a coach once said that "playing the man" was a negative way to go about things - far better and satisfying to win by using your skills and teamwork. But I guess both of us could be wrong! At this point in time we have an elected board that has the job of governing on behalf of the membership. The opportunity to change that will be at the next AGM. In the mean time this forum is very important as a voice that describes the future shape of RAAus as a vibrant and viable community business. I would much prefer to go down the path of acquired skills and teamwork as a means of achieving that goal.

 

 

[Powerin]

You could take a look at a Class Action against any individuals who have operated or are operating outside the Constitution. That would move them on and allow others to fill their place.

No need for a class action. The constitution allows members to remove any member(s) of the Board at a General Meeting (subject to the laws of natural justice). I don't think it would be wise to sack the lot and leave us with a rudderless ship though (although some would argue that that's what we have already ). Only items of business that are noted in the call for a General Meeting can be dealt with, but I believe one of the items of business listed is motions from the floor be taken, considered and voted on.

If you think this action is called for it would be allowable, and your right, to move a motion of no confidence (or dismissal?) in any or all members of the Board from the floor of the upcoming General Meeting. If it was supported by the majority of members they would be gone.

 

I would urge everyone to consider the ramifications of such a move, and where the RAAus would go from there.

 

 

[turboplanner]

No need for a class action. The constitution allows members to remove any member(s) of the Board at a General Meeting (subject to the laws of natural justice). I don't think it would be wise to sack the lot and leave us with a rudderless ship though (although some would argue that that's what we have already ). Only items of business that are noted in the call for a General Meeting can be dealt with, but I believe one of the items of business listed is motions from the floor be taken, considered and voted on.If you think this action is called for it would be allowable, and your right, to move a motion of no confidence (or dismissal?) in any or all members of the Board from the floor of the upcoming General Meeting. If it was supported by the majority of members they would be gone.

 

I would urge everyone to consider the ramifications of such a move, and where the RAAus would go from there.

I'm aware of the General Meeting option Pow; in fact that's what I suggested 18 months ago, but my suggestion was for a path sooner than Feb, which is a long way off for those financially affected.

 

 

[Powerin]

I'm aware of the General Meeting option Pow; in fact that's what I suggested 18 months ago, but my suggestion was for a path sooner than Feb, which is a long way off for those financially affected.

True.

However, RAAus being the legal entity, wouldn't this be a potential drain on member's funds? Can you bring action against individuals carrying out there duties as a committee on behalf of RAAus?

 

 

[coljones]

True.However, RAAus being the legal entity, wouldn't this be a potential drain on member's funds? Can you bring action against individuals carrying out there duties as a committee on behalf of RAAus?

You will probably find that the office-bearers are indemnified by RA-Aus. So in the first instance the legals would be met from members funds and/or the office-bearers insurance.

 

 

[Powerin]

You will probably find that the office-bearers are indemnified by RA-Aus. So in the first instance the legals would be met from members funds and/or the office-bearers insurance.

That would be my understanding Col.

 

 

[AlfaRomeo]

An action against an individual Board Member would have to be taken in the ACT Civil & Administrative Tribunal (ACAT). The outcome could be for that individual to be disqualified from being a member of the Management Committee (Board) for a period set down by the ACAT. I can't imagine a financial penalty being imposed but the Act does provide for a fine of up to something like $2,000 for an offence against, for example section 73 of the Act. But, the penalties are there for a reason - to deter people from committing the offences.

 

The Registrar-General of the Office of Regulatory Services could, if he/she chooses to, initiate such an action if the Committee (Board) Member has committed an offence against the Associations Incorporation Act, 1991.

 

Treasurer Reid appears to have committed a number of offences against s73 of the Act and so may have the Chair of the last AGM, Paul Middleton. Both could be disqualified for not providing the Financial Statements at the AGM. The Minutes (unratified) of the AGM that are published on the RA-Aus website include a false statement "Financial Statements and the Auditors Report for the financial year ending 30 June 2011 were tabled and read by Eugene Reid, the Treasurer". As anyone who was there would know, the Financials for neither 2011 nor 2012 financial years were available at the AGM held at Heck Field.

 

As the Financials were signed off by the Board and the Auditor on 30 August, but not presented to the AGM, it is possible that all Board Members, not just the Exec, are guilty of an offence against the Act.

 

The offence against s73 of the Act was dismissed lightly by Mr Runciman in the December/January edition of SportPilot:

 

". . . these (financials) were later than we would have liked and will strive to improve in this area.".

 

Could it be that the Exec see the Associations Incorporation Act, 1991 as a guideline rather than any sort of binding obligation? Perhaps no one on the Board has ever had a good read of the Act to see what it requires of people who take on Committee (Board) roles.

 

KGW: "I don't believe any member of the Board (I prefer to call them The Management Committee) took on their roles as a personal power trip".

 

Perhaps a glance at a photograph of a former President dressed in the civilian equivalent of an Air Commodore's uniform might raise an eyebrow about "power trips". Or perhaps a discussion with some of the four or five most recent Board Members to resign mid-term term, in part due to the overbearing, command & control style of Mr Runciman might also raise a question about "personal power trips".

 

I would very much hope that nobody does the job for personal gain as only reasonable, out-of-pocket expenses may be reimbursed by RA-Aus. However, as there is no financial internal audit, how would we know? Why would the financial records be in better shape than the registration records? The external auditors do not look for detailed "errors" in the way internal auditors do. Why has the CEO not sought routine internal audit?

 

Alf

 

 

[AlfaRomeo]

You will probably find that the office-bearers are indemnified by RA-Aus. So in the first instance the legals would be met from members funds and/or the office-bearers insurance.

Col,

If a Board Members is "convicted" of an offence against the Act and fined, RAA and its insurers are prohibited from paying the fine for the Board Member. I seriously doubt that they could even justify paying for a legal defence. If the matter was defended and lost then the Board Member might find himself in the position of having to reimburse RAA for the cost of the defence. The point is, do not break the law!!! My bet is that many of these blokes haven't read the act and just don't know that they have committed an offence.

 

 

[turboplanner]

No drain if the action is directly related to the actions of an individual, although the individual may try to drag the Association in if he is in control of the purse strings, but that in itself may lead to further action.

 

As to the second part, I've promised to check into some legal issues in Victoria to try to clear up a discussion on whether the legal liability of an Association extends to its members as written, or whether members can become liable to fund the losses in lawsuits. One of the first people I've interviewed, a libel allegation, said the lawyers simply bypassed the Association and went straight for her instead, so there would be an example.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Alfa's information is a better way to go.

 

 

[Macca274]

Macca, your criticism of Ozzie is GROSSLY unfair, I've put the broad framework in another post.

Entirely your prerogative, turbo.

 

 

[Macca274]

Then I shall continue to plough through - thanks.

Well Turbo, I took your advice and although it took a deal of my time, I did read through the extensive posts and have, after due consideration, taking into account my own previous posts, come to my own conclusions.

Seldom, if ever have I observed a more spiteful amateurish campaign by a rabid mob of wanna-be's than this. You ought to strip down and take a long hard look at yourselves. Armchair critics and pub lawyers is all I see here. What an utterly despicable lot of self-centred would-be-if-we could-be big-mouthed no back-up performers. PUT YOUR NAME ON A BALLOT PAPER rather than on a petiton. TALK IS CHEAP and cheap shots are even cheaper.

 

What a bloody disgrace. We have people who have the dedication to put themselves forward to give of their own time in order to continue the spirit of our shared passion and they are confronted with THIS OUTRAGEOUS CAPAIGN AGAINST THEM?

 

Quite frankly, you don't deserve the efforts that these elected representatives contribute.

 

Here's a scenario to consider. Our elected reps resign - declare all positions open and declare that they will not stand for the vacancies. WHo among you will stand? YOU? YOU? or YOU? No - I didn't think so. Happy to make the bullets and have somebody else fire them...

 

YOU OUGHT TO BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES!

 

Did any one of you call the office and offer to help process the backlog of registrations - ANYONE - JUST ONE - offer an hour of your precious time when you spent so much time on this blog composing your useless pearls of wisdom? I doubt it.

 

TYPICAL - of any club be it golf bowls or flying - "THOSE WHO CAN - DO! Those who can't - whine and whinge.

 

IF you can do better, then DO SO. if not then leave it to those who are trying.

 

What a whining bunch of ********************* My hope is that I never meet any of you!

 

 

[dodo]

YOU OUGHT TO BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES!Did any one of you call the office and offer to help process the backlog of registrations - ANYONE - JUST ONE - offer an hour of your precious time when you spent so much time on this blog composing your useless pearls of wisdom? I doubt it.

 

TYPICAL - of any club be it golf bowls or flying - "THOSE WHO CAN - DO! Those who can't - whine and whinge.

 

IF you can do better, then DO SO. if not then leave it to those who are trying.

Macca,

 

your comments are probably true about all on this forum occasionally, and some - more often.

 

However,

 

1 RA-Aus does have basic, systemic problems. For example, my local aero club can put out minutes on time, and publish financial statements. RA-Aus can't. The basic things that need to be done, are not done.

 

2 Unlike a local bowls club, we don't have the option to find another club. RA-Aus is also our regulator. So we can't easily walk away, which is what I would do if I easily could. I suppose I could go GA - but I have only just got my RA certificate. Start again, I suppose. Thanks for the rip-off!

 

3 The existing RA board/executive doesn't communicate. As always, that drives some wild speculation and rumours. The wildest I have heard this year was someone posting that all RA aircraft were to be grounded. Unfortunately,a few days later that turned out to be half true - link below

 

(the first post in this thread http://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/raaus-general-meeting-called.52288/ if you do not remember)

 

If you think all is fine with RA, then I suggest you relax, and don't worry,

 

best wishes,

 

dodo

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Macca, I understand where you are coming from and you sound like a reasonable person. Why do you think that people wouldn't be upset about the presidents actions?

 

 

[David Isaac]

Well Turbo, I took your advice and although it took a deal of my time, I did read through the extensive posts and have, after due consideration, taking into account my own previous posts, come to my own conclusions.Seldom, if ever have I observed a more spiteful amateurish campaign by a rabid mob of wanna-be's than this. You ought to strip down and take a long hard look at yourselves. Armchair critics and pub lawyers is all I see here. What an utterly despicable lot of self-centred would-be-if-we could-be big-mouthed no back-up performers. PUT YOUR NAME ON A BALLOT PAPER rather than on a petiton. TALK IS CHEAP and cheap shots are even cheaper.

 

What a bloody disgrace. We have people who have the dedication to put themselves forward to give of their own time in order to continue the spirit of our shared passion and they are confronted with THIS OUTRAGEOUS CAPAIGN AGAINST THEM?

 

Quite frankly, you don't deserve the efforts that these elected representatives contribute.

 

Here's a scenario to consider. Our elected reps resign - declare all positions open and declare that they will not stand for the vacancies. WHo among you will stand? YOU? YOU? or YOU? No - I didn't think so. Happy to make the bullets and have somebody else fire them...

 

YOU OUGHT TO BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES!

 

Did any one of you call the office and offer to help process the backlog of registrations - ANYONE - JUST ONE - offer an hour of your precious time when you spent so much time on this blog composing your useless pearls of wisdom? I doubt it.

 

TYPICAL - of any club be it golf bowls or flying - "THOSE WHO CAN - DO! Those who can't - whine and whinge.

 

IF you can do better, then DO SO. if not then leave it to those who are trying.

 

What a whining bunch of ********************* My hope is that I never meet any of you!

Thanks Macca for your enlightenment, may I suggest with the displayed level of vitriol, you may have raised yourself well beyond the level of what you criticise in others on this forum.

May I also suggest that your enlightenment could be considered the literary equivalent of an AK47 in a room full of critics ... one doesn't like what one hears so chooses an all out attack on all the critics in an attempt to silence them.

 

I wonder did you read all of the posts in all of the related threads or just this thread .... I recall several of the so called 'critics' have indeed offered to stand as 'Board' members.

 

Have you ever asked yourself ... "how could so many be so wrong?"

 

Perhaps it is simply easier to shoot the messengers than keep an open mind.

 

Aside from all the above and in a different spirit, I trust you have a safe and content Christmas period.

 

David Isaac

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Macca

 

I did some analysis of the yearly financials and have identified that on the info provided to us at teh AGM Revenue seems to be missing about $1/2m of income. (Details here)

 

Ive sent an original email on the 15th of December to all board members and a plea for some response on the 19th. $1/2m in Revenue of $2.5m is by any stretch of the imagination material. Other than one or 2 emails acknowledging receipt of the original question I havent received a response.

 

I know from my own life experience with financial systems that 10 minutes with the clerk who runs the system will tell me everything I need to know. I know from life experience that the Treasurer should be able to answer the questions I put inside 5 minutes.

 

I'm almost certain that the shortfall is because the number of financial members who as a result of being financial actually pay their subscriptions is vastly lower than the numbers of members advised to us at the AGM, and, or their is something nefarious going on.

 

If you can offer an explaination for why a simple financial request of the board that is of a fundamental importance is ignored for nearly 10 days then I'd like to hear it. The longer it is between hearing an answer the more suspicious I become. At some point if I get no satisfaction from the board then I must escalate. That time is fast approaching.

 

Andy

 

 

[dodo]

Andy,

 

to be fair, 10 days isn't a lot, if the answer is routine. What would disturb me is if you haven't received a satisfactory answer in a couple of weeks - and well before the GM.

 

And I would be very interested in the answer.

 

dodo

 

 

[Macca274]

may I suggest with the displayed level of vitriol, you may have raised yourself well beyond the level of what you criticise in others on this forum.

No, you may not! Vitriol suggests bitterness. There is no bitterness in my thought process. If anything, pity would probably better describe my sentiment. My comments pale given the invective that has been levelled towards those who have given of themselves in an effort to help our association. This public forum is not the place to conduct a Kangaroo Court. It is demeaning at best.

 

 

[Pete Greed]

Hi Macca:

 

Debate in any organisation is a healthy part of the governance process. Sometimes we can even agree to disagree (as I do with parts of your argument). The important process is the dialog or communications between the stakeholders/members and the board/committee. From experience, I have personally found this to be wanting.

 

This forum, with its warts and all, is but one of the important communication options available to members and people will make their own judgments about what is posted - (based, I would hope, on the truth of their own convictions). The board and management of RAAus is not the font of all knowledge - most of that resides in the various individuals, clubs and associations that makes up the recreational flying movement nation-wide. The job of the Board/Committee is to interpret the messages and strategic directions suggested by the field, then, with their own skills and talent, convert them into RAAus policy. This is a mature proactive process based on sound communications as opposed to the seemingly reactive, internal policy deliberations of the past.

 

Like David I hope you have a very happy Christmas and look forward to your contributions in the new year

 

All the best everyone.........Cheers Pete