Yenn Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Ianwells, Why? Can you explain your reasoning, or maybe you are just putting the cat in. (amongst the pigeons) When I used a sextant it was for plotting, rather than navigating. All it does is give you the info to plot a position and from there you navigate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guernsey Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 I stopped using my Sextant when I had my prostate removed. Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Get on the Stage Alan.. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howard Hughes Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 We need a 'boom-tish' smilie for everytime Alan posts! This is the best I could do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 North up nev? Im trying to think of the benefits but can't come up with many. Can you give me some examples of how it helps? remember, I get hit in the head alot....;) I have always felt that one of the underlying principles of ded reckoning is that reading from map to ground should be a straight forward "what you see is what you get" sort of affair. Looking ahead , to the right, left etc on the map, the view outside should correspond with what your map is showing you. I couldnt imagine trying to flip directions and distances mentally on the go like that would be required with north up. The only time I intro north up is during a diversion so that 'deducing' the heading required is much easier from a north up position. The cardinal direction is also very important obviously, but surely the 'heading' is enough info in this regard when considering orientation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Navigating north up is how birds and bats must do it. They don't have a rolling map but use magnetic lines. That is changing as in parts of the world north and south have reversed. I think every 100,000 years poles reverse, so keep an eye on your compass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 North up takes longer to get used to. What I found is that very few of our RAAus pilots that I have come across, can easily give an idea of where they are in relation to a feature. This would be a bearing FROM that feature, whether it is in degrees or cardinal or whatever points of the compass. I believe you can be more aware of your actual location ON a map that way .. Keeping EAST of a road I feel would be more understandable with the map to North always. IF you opened up Google map with a "you are here' thing and north could be anywhere it would take you longer to work out where you are. Most people would have to put north to the top and then work out where other places are in relation to themselves The flipping from "blue right to blue left" is only like you getting out of the LH seat and operating from the right with the same controls, but they are operated mirror image... LHD to RHD in a car though the pedals don't change.. I don't turn the map upside down when I am planning a southerly track. Nor do most people.. With GPS I usually go track to top if I use the terrain feature, but that is like dodging trees at low level compared to long distance navigating. I never force anyone with a preference to adopt a different method. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Both have their advantages. If you want to see where you are going, have track destination up. If you want to nominate position of places around you, put north up. When flying the Varieze on a bit of a hazy day, a small town on track would disappear under the nose before I was close enough to see it. So it didn't matter which way I held the map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 maps are always drawn with north at the top and that is the the way they should be used !!!!! except for the girls ? You can leave the girls out of it... I use a chart the way it is supposed to be...North up! Mariners plot their charts this way and they invented navigation so North up has got be right. If you tried swinging a naval chart around on the table at sea you would be put back in your place very quick smart. And it saves trying to read things upside down, too. kaz 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 I always thought that a map should be orientated so that what is left of track on the map can be seen on your left hand side as you travel along , and same for RHS. That infers that your DESTINATION is at the top. As for position reports, what is wrong with " Puddlejumper 2455 abeam Kickatinalong at time 15, tracking 285, estimating Terrabaginarf on the hour." OME Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 The RaAus syllabus, and the Casa day VFR syllabus make several references to "correct orientation of the map" inflight. ;) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarly Gnu Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 The RaAus syllabus, and the Casa day VFR syllabus make several references to "correct orientation of the map" inflight. And that is left undefined? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camel Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Maps North up, and GPS track up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 The RaAus syllabus, and the Casa day VFR syllabus make several references to "correct orientation of the map" inflight. ;) So north up it is then? kaz 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howard Hughes Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 You can leave the girls out of it...I use a chart the way it is supposed to be...North up! I wondered how many girls had voted North up! Mariners plot their charts this way and they invented navigation so North up has got be right. If you tried swinging a naval chart around on the table at sea you would be put back in your place very quick smart. An aircraft doesn't have a table to lay maps out on, so North up is impractical. No where's me compass and H4? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarly Gnu Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 I wondered how many girls had voted North up! Isn't it considered really bad luck to have ladies on a ship or something? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 And that is left undefined? Pretty much. But if you look elsewhere, in recommended procedures, the ClEAROF check defines O as orientate the map in direction of travel after turning at a waypoint ;). which way you have the GPS is irrelevant as it is not a primary means of navigation in raa acft. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentreau Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 .......I use a chart the way it is supposed to be...North up!......... Me too, I learned to read paper maps a long time ago in the scouts. Personally, I find the conversion to my actual route quite natural and easy. As Kaz says, you can read the text on the map and it's easy to establish relative position with the map the right way up. . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 An aircraft doesn't have a table to lay maps out on, so North up is impractical. They used to HH, under the astrodome where the navigator deployed his sextant (no doubt his important tool was generally north up, too. ) kaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Isn't it considered really bad luck to have ladies on a ship or something? How many blokey figureheads have you seen? Kaz. (You need to watch the little guy for a while to appreciate the relevance) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandit12 Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Me too, I learned to read paper maps a long time ago in the scouts. As did a number of us I guess. I generally use track up because that was how I was taught, but certainly don't have any issues orienting myself or using it north up. But anyone with spatial processing difficulties may struggle a bit with north up for navigating, or track up for giving relative positions on the go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howard Hughes Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 They used to HH, under the astrodome where the navigator deployed his sextant (no doubt his important tool was generally north up, too. )kaz I'd like to see one in the Auster! Deliberately avoids commenting on the last sentence! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 I can track any way to be honest...due to all my orienteering in my younger days as a scout and venturer we used to do a lot of trecking through the scrub finding points etc but when flying and also in the car I prefer to use track up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 To give a bearing to a feature on the map I use the map track up to locate the feature and relate bearing to my magnetic compass, which is not true North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyhi Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 IAn aircraft doesn't have a table to lay maps out on, so North up is impractical. You need a bigger aeroplane HH. All Airbus aircraft with side stick controls have two slide out map tables. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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