Guest Andys@coffs Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Thanks for the clarification Andy.Is this email the sum total of what has you predicting doom or just a small part of it? And if it is a small part, can you let us know some of what the rest of it is please?... Its only a part, and no I cant I don't have proof and cant post for fear that the multiple indirect sources of info will be punished/compromised. Also - since this is a financial matter shouldn't it be asked of the Treasurer? I quite agree that, as a member of the organisation, yours is a legitimate request for information and should be answered in a timely and open manner. No, its not a financial matter its a governance issue at least and a criminal matter at worst.......When the organisation has the official books and "Off the books" then its time we changed the management and the governance. Best case the off the books transactions were all for valid reasons despite being very wrong in the manner transacted....worst case its fraud.......Ican see NO REASON that this can ever be allowed to happen even if the transactions are valid HOW DO WE AS MEMBERS SCRUTINISE them. The board may from an intent perspective be whiter than white but now they have left themselves open to all sorts of claim and counterclaim........2 sets of books (whether the 2nd set exists physically or only metaphorically) is just SO WRONG!!! If there are a lot of similar issues which need clarification why not air them here and we can consider all making a joint submission requesting answers to them?. Because we have aired them until blue in the face.....The you have clowns like a certain WA members rep and a certain SQLD members rep who make claims like "Wreckers" and "want to take over" which is all so much BS we Don't want to take over we "have to take over....or watch us go down the drain hole...if they truly don't want us to take over then simply LIFT ABOVE THE PATHETIC MEDIOCRATY AND GOVERN APPROPRIATELY I'll be the first to say "I don't want to take over now...there's no longer a need!!! Instead PM went well beyond the constitution and sent a letter to every member.....we had no right of reply.......procedurally fair? No way! Don't lose hope or stop the crusade, this organisation must be brought to task and be either fixed or replaced. Either way I can assure you and all, that based on my years of close association with the DoA, DCA, CAA, CASA, they most certainly won't be resuming responsibility for our operations at any time in the future, they have enough to do with keeping 'proper aviation' in line and so their intervention would be nothing more than to shut us down until we get our act together by our either fixing the organisation or replacing it. I'm sorry but until recently I agreed with you, as previous posts would attest.....Im no longer convinced that is the case This might be yet another good time for the 95:10, 25 and 55 brigade to give further thought to re-establishing the old roots ... We had an action that came out of the Feb 9th meeting and a group of members including the proposer and seconder of that action were part of the team looking at the action. That is no longer totally the case........ Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 OK, I hear you, and I think a hell of a lot of others do too. So what do we do, if the time for talk is over and it's time for action then we don't need to make any more complaints or accusations, we simply need a workable plan for change. The main problem, as I see it, is that the February meeting showed that there simply isn't enough support from the membership for it to walk away from the current board and reps. So what might you suggest as a practical means to bring about change? Or does it need to simply be a matter of sitting back and allowing the farce to play out? And how practical would it be to break Rec Aviation up into its component parts again? That's what I'd like to see happen because the issues faced by 95:10 folks have nothing remotely to do with those of a Bristell (or any fast LSA) owner, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winsor68 Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 The time for action was last year... when the members meeting was called (and then stalled into a big shmozle by the Board). I find this all so sad... you didn't have to be bloody Nostrodamus to see this coming... I knew based upon an application of simple logic that this was coming... I will admit that in the last few months I was actually beginning to think that maybe I was wrong and it may be time to renew my membership... but alas no... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 So does anyone know what else is being run "off the books"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 So does anyone know what else is being run "off the books"? To sum up a tounge in cheek comment another member made "The presidency" is being run of the books.......He resigned....but he's still here so that's apparently off the books too....alone with the legal guidance that made it ok to unresign (and try finding that word in a dictionary!!!! about as easy to find as legal opinion saying you can do it...even if its not a real word!!! But that's beating an old drum....that was last beaten on Feb 9th.....and that beating wasn't with drum sticks but with a heap of proxy's obtained in a procedurally unfair manner. Rules are there to bind only those that wish to be so bound! I did make a comment to SR when I last spoke to him and said that while he copped a lot of flack at the Feb9th meeting for the Exec routinely going beyond their constitutional powers and not involving the board members...and that while the focus on the 9th was about them going beyond the line its my personal view that their continued stepping over the line was not only of their doing. They stepped well beyond because they felt they needed too, and they stepped well beyond because insufficient of the remainder of the board tried to hold them back where they should have been. Those on the board that are just using oxygen and warming a seat, you are as much to blame, perhaps more so, than those that regularly feel the need to slip the bindings of the constitution as and when they see fit. The exec will never be bound to operate within the constitution while there are insufficient among the remainder of the board who will do the job the role demands to hold them accountable. I have more contempt for your failure to ensure the board operates as the ACT act intends (because lets face it at the time its just easier to say nothing!!!) than the exec who do what they feel they must. In the event that I'm wrong in timing with my crystal ball gazing events, I implore the average members out there do yourself and all of us regular members a favour and vote out an empty vessel and put someone in place who can support those that want to, but are completely outnumbered today, to hold the entire team to account. The exec are supposed to be servants of the whole board, Today the whole board are merely close observers of what the exec feel they need to do, some of the board in constant agitation because they know its wrong but cant change it, and others blissfully unaware of anything....pass the coffee and sandwiches!! Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Greed Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Without the impediments of governance being addressed and the power of the executive being returned to the board, what is likely to change. Not much. The inability of members to interact with the board via their State Reps remains a major problem in reflecting back the concerns of regional members and conversely the board tapping the resources available. A return to the past and more pain for those that know there is a better way forward :( 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadpete Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Maybe the first step forward is to clear the air of any possible legal repurcussions. That requires outside intervention. So who should bring the possibly criminal transgessions to the attention of the authorities? Which authorities could be able to (and be encouraged to) investigate? Which actual suspected incidents should be investigated by the authorities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 That would be the owners of the Association Nomad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest john Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 In response to Andys future predictions within our organisation which is now not only broke, but is beyond repair, it is now going to be a wait & see game. When Eugene Reid was President he was told that RAAus was on the path of SELF DESTRUCTION as far as I was concerned, however for some unknown reason he could not see the WOOD FOR THE TREES. It is apparent that the Executive Members are unable to make the necessary decisions to get rid of the dead wood within the organisation, which is evident from the CLAYTONS MEETING in 2/13. Everything in life has an ending, therefore all we little members have to do is to be patient , sit on our hands & see whether it is going to be sooner or later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadpete Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 My point is this - If things are as bad as all the suggestions imply, the sooner official action takes place, the sooner we can get on the road to recovering our flying privileges. Waiting will only make the end worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Good point nomad, good luck with it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Greed Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 With an Executive focused on operations and reactive to CASA's contractural arrangements, RAAus is being robbed of any strategic planning capacity. Strategic thinking should be the primary role of the board and reflective of what we as members see as important in the current and future directions of RAAus. The current gene pool of ideas is limited to just a few under the current governance arrangements. Change must come from the elected board and they need professional assistance in achieving good governance. This is not likely to happen while the current executive dabbles in operations at the expense of both the board and paid professional staff. Should have put the fuel we used to go to Canberra into the Jabby :( bugger 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 The problem with all this "off the book" stuff is it's hard to get it back on the books without answering a few questions to the rank and file. It works when Uncle Eugene and Steve and Middo are in on it but if the new president comes along he is in a tricky situation. The other down side is that the board can't easily sack the CEO as he has some leverage about the grey area stuff, so you have to wait for the CEO to decide to leave. It's no wonder they don't bother with strategic planning. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 ...... within our organisation which is now not only broke...... John, do you have some justification from inside information for making this statement? As far as I am aware the RAA has a reasonable annual surplus, it was about $220k in last year's Treasurer's Report 2012, and predicted to be about $140k for this year IIRC. But according to the Treasurer's Report at the Natfly RA-Aus meeting (see Sport Pilot May 2013 edition, page 14) "Mike reported that in the first six months of the year, RA-Aus had reported a loss of $67,191.91, but was still on track to make a reasonable profit over the full year. The loss, he reported, was mainly due to the loss of revenue caused by the delay in registration renewals month on month." As I would understand it, that would mean that the financial position of the Organisation, six weeks ago, should be that it was in credit and improving, I haven't seen the Profit and Loss and Balance Sheet so I'm not sure what the situation is in regard of cash-in-bank but it hardly looks like justification for calling it broke I would have thought. Note - I have edited this post since first submission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 If it's any help, the official RAA Financial Report at June 30 2012 showed Cash and cash equivalents at $1,782,494 alone plus $2,946,9877 in non-current assets. I would totally ignore the surplus or deficit figure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 If it's any help, the official RAA Financial Report at June 30 2012 showed Cash and cash equivalents at $1,782,494 alone plus $2,946,9877 in non-current assets.I would totally ignore the surplus or deficit figure Yes Turbs, that's a great help, thanks. So where in hell do the flaming rumour-mongers and malcontents find justification for calling the Organisation broke? As if we haven't got enough de-stabilising influences as it is. Don't get me wrong, I'm not in support of the way RAA has been and I don't know if the present mob are going to get it well again or not, that's not the point ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 The RAA will never go broke. If they need more money they can just jack up the cost of being a member. The biggest problem facing the RAA is still that the membership isn't growing. For the last 5 years the RAA management has been spouting growth figures that are wildly inaccurate which has lead them to the false belief that the organisation is growing when its clear its either stagnating or on the decline. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 They key to the future will be the number of high value claims You should have been told the basics of the Sting case You should know why the claim is against the PI which has reached its payout limit, and not with PL If there are multiple claims coming in, that's what PL Insurance is for, and certainly if claims are multiple, major support for the insurer is necessary If there is no PL, or a limit on PL, then the money has to come from members to keep the Association alive 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbo Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 In which state was the comment about off the records sent from? I really hope it was from the NSW side of the border because he can join a few ex labour pollies. ICCC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 I think you'll find any offence would be committed in the ACT, but it would be nice - what appalling behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbo Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Very Interesting as he also holds a commonwealth office and he has powers (as delegated) from CASA which are directly related to the current situation. Federal offences have possibly been comitted and this needs to be raised with the AFP, ASIC and ATO asap. Doesn't RAA recieved federal funding? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 The biggest problem facing the RAA is still that the membership isn't growing......... which has lead them to the false belief that the organisation is growing when its clear its either stagnating or on the decline. Spot on FT. And it's not at all surprising when you consider the cost of getting into the air these days. When I started recreational flying in the 1970s it was a cheap pastime. I had been racing karts but then got into business and just didn't have the time to prep the karts between weekend races so I turned to my other latent interest, flying. I got into it by learning to hangglide and even during training it was about half the cost of entering and competing in karting events. And then I got into trikes. I chose to build my own, but even so a state-of-the-art one at the time, with wing, cost about the same as a average new club kart and kit. I mention karts because that's a good cost-comparison of where our sport should be. Studies done in the US over many years have provided a good indication of benchmark figures that folks are willing to pay for their recreational vehicles and it shouldn't be any surprise to hear that the average price of a jet-ski/PWC accurately straddles the average recreational vehicle budget - some Companies employ smart marketers ... So if we're going to stand any real hope of expanding our numbers rather than standing by and allowing our organisation to be used for simply catering to the more than averagely wealthy ex-GA failed medical types, then we need a far bigger offering of new aircraft priced within the recreational vehicle budget which is around $20K, and not much over that, perhaps $25K tops. What do we have now in that range? Some X-Airs and Skyrangers just scrape in if you do a lot of scrounging during the build, not many others in the two seaters and precious few in the single seaters as well. 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob c Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 which is now not only broke, but is beyond repair, I read this as "broken" 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 which is now not only broke, but is beyond repair,I read this as "broken" Good point Rob. If that is what was meant then apologies to John except I'd never be so defeatist as to say anything is beyond repair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbo Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 which is now not only broke, but is beyond repair,I read this as "broken" And corrupt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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