Oscar Posted June 26, 2013 Author Share Posted June 26, 2013 IF CASA doesn't like it they can withdraw the exemptions and funding And if they withdraw the exemptions, we are all on the damn ground as you have said. What use to us is an organisation that meets the Governance requirements but can't keep our aircraft in the air? The HGFA deed is completely irrelevant unless ours is the same - and we don't know that, because we can't damn well get at it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 All of that is agreed - but since we don't know the terms of the Deed of Agreement - what if one of the consequences is that CASA issues some sort of suspension of RAA operations until there IS an effective and duly-constituted Executive? From various comments made on this forum, it appears to me that the Executive has a fairly specific duty of responsibility to CASA to be the nominated action agent for our compliance etc. operation - rather than specified individuals as in I of A persons - so it's not as if business in regard to operation can continue while governance gets sorted out, I would have thought. You can go to the office and read it or you can apply for a copy under FOI. My copy is a couple of years old but still reflects the requirements including setting up a SMS. Kaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 T I will have to read the CASA Deed to see if a full Executive is the only means of satisfying the Deed. However the Executive is only required for decision making when the Board is NOT meeting (my emphasis in your quote). It is concerning that we find ourselves a little short on Executives - only by one at the moment and there is currently nominations and election under way (although deadlocked last I read). Turbo may be able to shed light on the Deed requirements. Sue The deed binds the Association. That is the legal personality. Kaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted June 26, 2013 Author Share Posted June 26, 2013 So - what does the Deed have to say as regards authority to execute the responsibilities placed on RAA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilby54 Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 Not quite sure what the problem is here. The Operations Manual, which has been approved by CASA, has all of the requirements to meet whatever agreement they have asked for. Yes, I also have asked RAA to get the argreement on the web site but if every CFI, PE and Ops Manager are doing their job correctly, then what is the problem? RTFM. I doubt very much that CASA is beyond reproach in safety matters and given the current state of political affairs, is it any wonder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK58 Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 It is true that Ed id demanding at least 70% of the Board support him by COB tomorrow or he'll quit. I have suggested to the Board that the proper response to that sort of ultimatum is "don't let the door hit you on the a**e on your way out." No one is indispensible and the moment they start thinking they are is the moment they should be removed. I believe Ed is bluffing and won't follow through. Like most bullies it's all hot air. A couple of weeks ago he was demanding 100% support. Since that wasn't forthcoming it's now 70%. Who knows what it'll be next? Sadly, I don't believe it'll be goodbye. 70% support would require no more than 2 dissenters. I doubt that will be achieved with Ed's current approach. Rather than his crash through or crash out, my way or the highway approach, Ed should be talking to his peers on the Board (they are peers, not subordinates) to find a solution everyone can live with. And if he can't bring himself to do that he should go. 2 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 Not quite sure what the problem is here.The Operations Manual, which has been approved by CASA, has all of the requirements to meet whatever agreement they have asked for. Yes, I also have asked RAA to get the argreement on the web site but if every CFI, PE and Ops Manager are doing their job correctly, then what is the problem? RTFM. I doubt very much that CASA is beyond reproach in safety matters and given the current state of political affairs, is it any wonder? I don't think that's the entirety. I do agree that the "business as usual" requirements are as you say embedded in the manuals, but some/most years CASA wants additional capability brought on board, those additional capabilities wont be embedded in manuals until they are developed and implemented. The failed CASA audits showed that RAAus struggled with meeting our Day to Day requirements and shock/horror if we cant meet day to day obligations then at least to me it comes as no great surprise that growing our capability proves to be a real challenge....... Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWF Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 .....The Operations Manual, which has been approved by CASA, has all of the requirements to meet whatever agreement they have asked for. ....... For a start the Ops Manual makes no mention of a SMS or how one should operate or who should do it. It is a document in drastic need of revision! DWF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlfaRomeo Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 The Executive should be looked on as being a Sub-Committee of the Board. The Executive work for the Board not the other way around as Ed Herring and Steve Runciman before him seem to think. The President is not the commander in chief unless you are talking about the President of the USA. Our President is the Chairman of the Board and his job is to get the best out of each Board member and create a team environment. Ed is clear in that he wants a team of ONE! There is a huge difference between cooperation and appeasement of a bully. It is totally improper of Ed to ask for Board Members to forsake their fiduciary duty and rubber stamp every one of his improper decisions like giving a six figure salary job to a fellow member of the Executive as long as the fellow member of the Executive first resigns from the Board. The question of appointing an STCC was put to the Board at Temora. The Board did not decide to do it - Ed then acted contrary to a decision of the Board. That cannot be the way to run a corporation unless you own 100% of the shares. And, guess what? Ed does not own RA-Aus - he just acts that way. CASA deals with Recreational Aviation Australia Incorporated - the legal entity. There is no legal entity applicable to the Executive. We have 85 days until the new Board and the New Executive take office at the AGM on Saturday 21 Sep 2013 (my guess). Hopefully, we can survive that long with the current dysfunctional Board. If you want to go to the AGM, and you don't want it to be in Canberra, you will need to get onto your representative(s) on the Board and let them know loud and clear you do not want the AGM in Canberra. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 I see the politics brigade has now infested this thread. The long and the short of the rumour at the centre of this thread is that the board members appear to be having a discussion and possibly a vote, which they are entitled to do by themselves, and the consequences of such vote is their responsibility. They are entitled to have a vote on whether they should have chocolate frogs at each board meeting if they wish. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted June 27, 2013 Author Share Posted June 27, 2013 Well, as I understand it, the situation has now progressed from the theoretical to the actual, so unless someone else steps up to the plate as President, we will have an unrivalled opportunity to see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Page Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 Wait and see.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slb Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 I'd just put a chainsaw through the gordian knot - there's a safety job to be done and safety authority waiting and line up of people happy to sue.Another job for the RAA board is to put the deed on the website so at the very least they can have a quick look to see what their jobs are In the meantime here's the HGFA deed. I just scanned down to "Responsible Officer" which looks simple enough, but you may find more further down. http://www.hgfa.asn.au/HGFA/casa/CASA Deed of Agreement.pdf Can we assume you had the HGFA's permission to reproduce it here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 Can we assume you had the HGFA's permission to reproduce it here? He didn't......he just provided the URL to it on the HGFA website. He could instead have said google +HGFA +Deed and it would have been the first hit. If HGFA didn't want it available to all and sundry it should be behind a members login wall..... But then if HGFA can publish it why the hell cant RAAus? Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted June 28, 2013 Author Share Posted June 28, 2013 If the RAA's D0A resembles the HGFA's, then I can't see any plausible reason for members not being able to access a key document relating to what they have, in effect, signed up to. I note that in the HGFA DoA, Section 7 relates to 'Specified Personnel': 7 Specified Personnel 7.1 The Organisation will ensure that the Specified Personnel will conduct the Schedule Functions in a diligent and competent manner and will comply with this Deed. In the Schedule, Part 2 (v) an 'Accountable Manager' is required to be appointed. Does anyone know (and can make public) whether there is a similar requirement in the RAA DoA, and if so - who (or what group) is specified? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slb Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 He didn't......he just provided the URL to it on the HGFA website. He could instead have said google +HGFA +"+Deed and it would have been the first hit. If HGFA didn't want it available to all and sundry it should be behind a members login wall.....But then if HGFA can publish it why the hell cant RAAus? Andy Maybe I am missing something, but without this link ... it doesn't appear on the HGFA website. So maybe it is hidden? (or supposed to be) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Just google CASA+"Deed of Agreement" and you'll find a public access link there slb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slb Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Just google CASA+"Deed of Agreement" and you'll find a public access link there slb. Found it - Thanks Also a good way of finding the RAAus safety audit report .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted June 28, 2013 Author Share Posted June 28, 2013 Aha - I was wrong; as of this afternoon we do not have a 1-man 'the Executive' - we have a NO-man 'the Executive'. Paul Middleton has resigned as the Secretary, but not from the Board. Still, I have been told that all will be well - so no worries, eh? Nullus anxietas; we have no President, Treasurer, Secretary, or Public Officer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spriteah Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Rest assured the board is working to rectify this situation and I'm sure it will be resolved in the very near future. CASA are aware of the circumstances. Regards, Jim Tatlock Victorian State Rep RA-Aus board. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerochute Kev Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Shame the members are not "aware of the circumstances". Well I am just about over all this. Can we as members dismiss the entire board, insert a management team (sort of like an administrator) until elections can be held and if any current members of the board want to stand, they will be judged by the membership? Nice weather tomorrow so I'm going flying, whilst I still can. Kev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Going on past performances the question is do we really need an executive? Last man out please push the 'autopilot' switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunder Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 As a member, pilot and aircraft owner, I must say thankyou to Jim T for his regular posting of the current RAA status. I appreciate your efforts. It is a shame most of the membership no nothing of this turmoil befalling us. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlfaRomeo Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 . . . we have no President, Treasurer, Secretary, or Public Officer. Mark Clayton, GM, has been appointed Public Officer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlfaRomeo Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 I see the politics brigade has now infested this thread. . . . I resemble that remark! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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