XP503 Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 http://www.gloucesteradvocate.com.au/story/1736675/plane-crashes-into-paddock/?cs=433 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 Jacqueline is not in good shape ............gee I hope I get that sort of response if ever I need it !...full oxy gear and all.............Maj... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 Actually Jacqueline looks fine, it's Doug that's out of salts. Hope the back and head pain proves to be minor. Engine failure but all three prop blades broken ...? What engines and props do they use, does anyone know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 Actually Jacqueline looks fine, it's Doug that's out of salts. Hope the back and head pain proves to be minor.Engine failure but all three prop blades broken ...? What engines and props do they use, does anyone know? All the ones that I have seen have been fitted with the 912/914 Rotax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 All blades broken would indicate to me that engine was running at touchdown. We had a similar result up here with a Hornet with the left main landing gear also damaged. It was caused by a power loss due to the pilot incorrectly switching tanks........................Maj... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 All blades broken would indicate to me that engine was running at touchdown. We had a similar result up here with a Hornet with the left main landing gear also damaged.It was caused by a power loss due to the pilot incorrectly switching tanks........................Maj... Agree about the engine running/broken prop blades thing ... IMHO the absent gear leg is symptomatic of the major weakness of a trailing link design. You might expect occasional firm landings with a plane designed for the bush, but when the extent of the monoshock travel is reached the knee comes into contact with the ground and there's no more 'give' to be had so the knee has to dig into the ground and the result is either tearing the gear leg off or flipping the plane upside down, both result in airframe damage which is too extensive to fix in the bush and often results in a total loss of the aircraft. I far prefer the outwardly hinged gear legs with external long travel dampers. Admittedly the tyres cop a pizzling from being scrubbed as the suspension moves but that does have the co-incidental advantage of assisting the braking for short field 'dump' landings. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadpete Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 Oh.... I hope this doesn't start another Rotax bashing spree by certain biased individuals 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 looks like a pretty hard landing. Is that plane is a write off? Looks repairable. Owner is going to be upset when he or she sees what has become of the new plane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 Oh.... I hope this doesn't start another Rotax bashing spree by certain biased individuals I am sure we can handle 1 Austrian manufacturer failure to every 150+ Australian failures there Nomad. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExJourno Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Does insurance cover new ametuer builds during the 25 initial hours? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 The manufacturer would have some sort of professional indemnity insurance for this accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExJourno Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 What about for the damage though? Will the owner be likely to have cover for the repairs at this stage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 I am guessing it depends on the contract they signed. But if they agreed on a "fly away price" I would imagine that is off the cards now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Isaac Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Ross, Do geared Rotax's need a bulk strip with a prop strike or does the sprag clutch save that cost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocket1172 Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 No bulk strip required with the 100 hp coz of the clutch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluespot Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 No bulk strip required with the 100 hp coz of the clutch. True -- but not all 912 100p variants have the clutch and even when fitted inspection of the entire power plant is still required refer SL -912-015. This may require crank dial etc Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Hmmm, I actually sat in that plane a few months back, hope everyone shapes up fine and it all works out ok for Ollie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalman Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Does insurance cover new ametuer builds during the 25 initial hours? Mine did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Rotax bashing group. I must get my eyes checked. ALL engines can fail. Often it is the fuel system or the fuel or something extra to the motor ( exhaust system, coolant or pump). Let's get rid of the prejudice and get some facts into this or we are just wasting time running in circles. Who replaces the diaphragms regularly in their Mikuni pumps and fuel lines and checks fuel filters like they should? A perfect engine would be wasted on people who don't ensure there is enough fuel to run it. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Rotax bashing group. I must get my eyes checked. ALL engines can fail. Often it is the fuel system or the fuel or something extra to the motor ( exhaust system, coolant or pump). Let's get rid of the prejudice and get some facts into this or we are just wasting time running in circles. Who replaces the diaphragms regularly in their Mikuni pumps and fuel lines and checks fuel filters like they should? A perfect engine would be wasted on people who don't ensure there is enough fuel to run it. Nev Nev, Well I can only speak for myself here, yes I apparently used to waste way to much money on my trike buying stuff that Rotax said I needed to do at certain hours according to my Rotax dealer at the time. Replaced diaphragms, needles & jets, wasted money on high quality fuel lines and the list goes on, but I am only human after all but it never let me down and I considered it money well spent. I am of the belief that all engines will fail at some stage of their life if left to run without proper maintenance and TBO times adhered to. Yep my trusty Rotax might go for 4000hrs without being touched if I was game to do that for which I am not, it might only go for 1 more hour before something happens to it who knows. The engine is only good for pulling it into the air, the ultimate outcome when it stops in the hobby we chose to participate in is the human element factor that controls whether we live to see the next sunrise We are the weakest link whether sitting behind a Rotax, Jabiru, Lycoming, Continental IMO. Alf 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 I agree with Major and HITC. It would appear from the photos that the power plant was producing power when the aircraft has hit the ground. Unless of course, there is another explanation on why all 3 blades have sheared off near the hub. All blades sheared like that off to me would indicate that the were blades rotating under power and have sheared off with contact to the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 You mostly make your own luck ALF. Obviously the motor was turning but you don't know how much power it was delivering. Metal props which bend tell you more. The plane doesn't look too damaged, but it isn't new anymore Pretty strong plane.Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 A prop strike on any 912 according to Bert Floods requires a gearbox check, and a runout check on the crankshaft. In my experience they don't incur damage easily.........Just last week I sent the one off the Highlander down to Wal ( Wals back by the way ...hoorah !!!!) for a look over. It only had a bit more than 100 hrs and went into sand, but since it works hard often over rough country, it's cheap insurance really. It's got a long way to go really with that engine. The slipper clutch does save a lot of gearboxes from damage and is a great idea, however the one on the Hornet would need to be checked out for sure ...........................Maj.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Additionally, last time I talked with Ole he had a preference for the 914 in the Hornets, however the one at Montpelier only has the 100 hp 912. Im not a real fan of the 914 myself. With the 3 blade Warp drive ( looks like on this one) they are a bit under-propped, and would get better performance all round with a wider blade. Facto is correct in saying that fuel supply to the engine can primarily be a function of the fuel system set-up, within the airframe. Most engine failures are fuel supply related, so keeping the fuel system on any aircraft as simple, and less complicated as possible, is always the way to go. In reply to Factos question of who checks their Mikuni diaphragms and filters / fuel lines often ?......the carbs on the 912 are Bings by the way, and the engine fuel pump is a Pierburg. The fact is the fuel system is very important on an aircraft, and I don't know about the rest of you but I do keep a close eye on mine. As an example my 912 has just turned 750 hrs and at 700 hrs I fitted new carb sockets, went through the carbs and replaced certain components, and cleaned the fuel filter which should be done at every 100 hourly or even a 50 hrly if you so desire. The Lightwing has a glass fuel filter bowl so can be easily monitored for sediment build up. I have also fitted a fuel- pressure gauge to my panel and have an elect boost pump at the ready should I need it. I have also purchased one of the newer style engine fuel pumps which I carry in the aircraft. I have been told while the original Pierburg is doing it, leave it alone so I have, so the new pumps along for the ride ATM..............Maj..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocket1172 Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 On the money Maj! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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