Guest Andys@coffs Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Keith The difference is stark! Back then there really was an attempt to bypass due process whereas now there isnt any attempt to do anything and your grasping at nothing! Has there been any indication other than inuendo here that due process is being bypassed? If what is being suggested comes to pass then im onboard with making noises but Jim has said that its up to the GM and the acting guy doesnt want the role fulltime so what is it that you are suggesting? Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Rewriting history Andy? I didn't see any attempt at bypassing due process at all. Myles was certainly branded and vilified, but the President of the day was responding to warning words from CASA, and rushing to get a Safety Management System in place (which was required to be in place in 2010. The end result, don't forget, is that RAA is continuing to operate without a Safety Management System. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Another way to look at it is - elect a board to run the show for 12 months and give them a go and not try to micro manage from home on a computer. That sounds like excellent advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Isaac Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Yep ... we need to let the new boys have a go and see what they can do. It will take time. However, I will say that does NOT exempt them from accountability to the members. On reading this thread, I am not seeing anything that suggests we shouldn't follow a proper recruiting process, I read the consensus is that we should. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Page Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Got to do a wee forward thinking here. GM working with an acting Tech. Manager is exactly what he wants hence there is no intention to call a person for the full time position. Here could be another type of tilt how things work at RAAus. Just thinking,Could this be a true situation? Regards Keith Page. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Yeah good one Keith you uncovered another conspiracy, that GM nearly had everybody fooled, we are so lucky you are around. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 The Riechstag is Burning people and Keith is the only one to see it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harv Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 FFS, the last thing we need now is for RAAus to toss about wasting time following 'due process'. Darren has been helping out since the proverbial hit the fan last year. He is hands down the best fit for the job right now. He's got the skill, experience and now, the 'corporate knowledge' to get us through this mess. He (and Dean Tompkins) are being good Samaritans. They could just as easily throw up their hands and say 'this is all too hard , bugger the lot of you'... But they have chosen to try and sort this technical mess out and neither of them played any part in creating it. As for the 'jobs for the boys' comments. Appointing Darren is not even remotely like that. If you ask me it's a solid and affirmative action on our new managements behalf. Like someone else said above, lets stand back and let the new mob give it a red hot go before we sit comfortably in our arm chairs and fire out the ' expert' advice/opinions. And just quietly, I don't think Darren is even close to the retirement age..... 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 FFS, the last thing we need now is for RAAus to toss about wasting time following 'due process'. Darren has been helping out since the proverbial hit the fan last year. He is hands down the best fit for the job right now. He's got the skill, experience and now, the 'corporate knowledge' to get us through this mess. He (and Dean Tompkins) are being good Samaritans. They could just as easily throw up their hands and say 'this is all too hard, bugger the lot of you'... But they have chosen to try and sort this technical mess out and neither of them played any part in creating it. As for the 'jobs for the boys' comments. Appointing Darren is not even remotely like that. If you ask me it's a solid and affirmative action on our new managements behalf. Like someone else said above, lets stand back and let the new mob give it a red hot go before we sit comfortably in our arm chairs and fire out the ' expert' advice/opinions. And just quietly, I don't think Darren is even close to the retirement age..... Harv, All very emotional and such, and your welcome to your opinion of course. However, as you may or may not remember 'due process' or lack there of, is what got us in deep doo doo with the last mob, and 'due process ' is what got the current mob in place. It's just how it has to be done per the RAA constitution, whether you like it or not. That way regardless of the ultimate outcome we can at least say, well we played the game correctly and we didn't move the goal posts, for anyone . If Darren or Dean want the job, then they go through the process of applying for it like anybody else would have to.....period. If they , (or anybody else) want to jump the que, then we look elsewhere, and it is the GMs job and responsibility to see that that occurs also............Maj... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Spanner Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 I ask my myself why 3 Tech managers have crashed and burned in row and the current stand in had not previously offered himself for interview? Is he scared? Or can he predict this outcome? Any new TM to the organise will need time to catch up to his/her position and require introduction and training into the position learning the rules that apply to this niche category of flying. This position is a lot different to any of the other RAA flying operations position. The reasons being is that flying operations, such as airlaw, has for the most part just been adopted from CASA GA and applied to RAA in the same manner. For the Maintenace, registration and engineering the RAA has invented thier own custom set procedures and law making over time of which has a mine field of differences and holes compared to the CASA GA system and cannot be mirror matched and applied in rule making. With all this, the RAA only want to use 1 Tech manager to execute this whole area and at the same time there is a less pool of experienced individuals working along side the TM at the head office with less support or skills pool to bounce off. This leaves any TM isolated with less skilled oversight. If ever a TM ever leaves you have no redundcy in system and the issues formulate over time. When will the RAA wake up and admit the problems in this area and apply some common sense and apply more support and back up? Yes it will cost more money! When will they realize it's not a 1 man job? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadpete Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 What is all the fuss? We lost our TM due to unsuitable qualifications (or something like that) which could have caused liability issues if anything went wrong. RAAus requires a TM in order to operate. We have a GM who is following 'Due process' and has announced that he intends to advertise for a new TM. We have a capable temporary TM until that time. That seems to be a reasonable process that will ensure transparent appointment of a new permanent TM. Yes, we obviously need to have more resources for the job, but that is another issue, and hopefully the board are taking steps in that direction. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 We lost our TM due to unsuitable qualifications (or something like that) which could have caused liability issues if anything went wrong. Really? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Really? Have you tried talking to an Area Rep? It doesn't have to be the one for your area if you don't like that one just contact one or more from anywhere. Richard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Isaac Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 ...We lost our TM due to unsuitable qualifications (or something like that) which could have caused liability issues if anything went wrong. .... That is a real BIG call Pete ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadpete Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 I retract my comment about why we lost our Techman. In the absence of direct information, I was alluding to a previous post by someone else. Suffice to say "We lost our Techman." No offence was intended to anybody. Particularly Wayne. I appreciate the sincere effort that he put in to a very difficult and complex job. Apart from that, nobody seemed to agree or disagree with the rest of my post? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 I knew the "techmen" back to Mike Valentine. I reckon that most of them could have done the job well enough, with the right support, training and direction. Techman is a slang term. What should his/her title really be?. Who could write a good job description? How many applicants would really know what they would be letting them selves in for? IF a lot of the job is managerial rather than outright source of knowledge and skills, he might use members as aids when required or pay for it when needed as you do with legal matters. Ie use experts when experts are needed. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Isaac Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 I think you are right Nev, I firmly believe that the 'Techman ' function and the person needed to sort out the current mess are two different animals. The Techman would certainly be significantly short on his normal function as a Techman with the additional monumental task of sorting out the current mess. The association must urgency put in place comprehensive digitized systems for record holding and renewals of the various registrations and certificates. Once implemented, the work load would drop off significantly. We should be engaging external subject matter experts for this very function and let the Techman be a Techman. 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadpete Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 My biggest concerns about the "New Tech Manager Search" are: 1. Is anything being done within RAAus to target qualified and suitable persons for such positions? (to avoid a repeat of the high turnover problem) 2. Is anybody writing up a comprehensive list of KPI's for the position? (to ensure they know what is expected of them, and for us to know if they are performing as required) 3. Is there a proper job description, with a detailed list of duties / accountabilities? (so they know what is expected of them) The above are essential for an incoming person to be able to do the job, for RAAus to be able to see that they are doing the job (these days everything must be measurable), for overload of work to be identified in order to provide support when needed, and in the event of any shortfall of performance, for some control and if need be, a clean termination of services if necessary. Please note I am looking forward, not backwards. I am not suggesting anything about any particular person in our past, but unless all job details are laid out clearly at the recruiting time, sooner or later there will be problems. Anyway, I recently raised these concerns with a local rep, and I am happy to say that I am now reassured that the above steps are under way. That is a big step in the right direction. Pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Page Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 nomadpete You are not to far off the pace need more additions though. A very big place to start you will have to get rid of the internal political clubs, by looking at these forums it is not to hard to work that one out. "Work Load" yes.... When one ask for help and direction give the request not make life more miserable and harder. If people work in harmony and not against each other a great deal is achieved. We do not need people wondering around pretending they are great wondeful saviours. Regards Keith Page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 1. Is anything being done within RAAus to target qualified and suitable persons for such positions? (to avoid a repeat of the high turnover problem) Nomad why are you persisting with denigrating good people? If you have anything to suggest that Adam or Wayne were not either qualified or suitable then let's hear it otherwise bring yourself up to scratch with what has been happening, and stop rubbishing these people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Page Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Ye Turbo I gave him the benefit of the doubt that he moved on. To me he asked what is going on. The other good one put it out there what the TM is supposed to do and we will help keep watch on the happenings. However I think looking for the new TM is a bit long winded. Had to mention about all the internal politics which we do not hear about but only glean a fraction of by way of these forums. You know all these various little internal club. Regards Keith Page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Nomad why are you persisting with denigrating good people?If you have anything to suggest that Adam or Wayne were not either qualified or suitable then let's hear it otherwise bring yourself up to scratch with what has been happening, and stop rubbishing these people. Once again you could try talking to a board member or two instead of relying on one sided gossip. I firmly believe if that job was suitable for Wayne he would still be there and these sort of remarks do nobody any good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Best you talk to some more people Teckair, also to avoid one sided gossip. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Best you talk to some more people Teckair, also to avoid one sided gossip. It has been made public knowledge that some people consider Wayne has been badly treated, it is the other side of the story which has not been made public knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 .......However I think looking for the new TM is a bit long winded........ Spot on Keith..We should have more of the same!! Myles for TM and to hell with process!!!! oh and the bit about internal clubs...........If you throw rocks in glass houses......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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