ayavner Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Haha well this is a first I guess, though I have had lessons cut short due to sudden rain I have not had one end in the runup bay before! But it was my decision and I am happy with it. I am sure the CFI would have reached the same conclusion, but he wanted to hear it from me. This was to be my last Nav flight before the XC test. Bankstown to Goulburn and back, with some diversions, low level, and getting lost thrown in. So I got up at 0530, showered looked at weather etc and things looked OK. Drove down to the school and got the latest wind info and started filling in my charts, usual stuff to get ready. Started looking a little hazy, but figured it would burn off. Did all the checks, taxied to the runup area for final checks and we heard on the radio that they were reducing visibility to 4 km due to smoke rolling in from the west (from bushfires here in NSW). Possibly could have gotten over and around it, but no guarantee we could make it back if it got worse. Then started hearing others on the radio who had left for the training area saying that it was pretty bad and asking the tower if they could come back for circuits instead... so i said no way and taxied back to the school. By the time we got back to the school, they were saying no circuit training allowed and visibility at 3km. But we spent a good hour going over all the scenarios and grilling me pretty well and he figures i am ready to give the test a red-hot go :) Then I visited the control tower to see what goes on there, that was pretty cool but very basic - nothing like the huge wall of monitors and radars you see on TV. It was good to meet the people i talk to on the radio. So... paid for but didn't log .3 hours, which was a bummer, but for the $ the briefing and visit to the tower was worth it. Called up and canceled my flight notification and participated in some retail therapy at the aviation store instead! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Very wise and mature decision ayavner. One of the most frightening flights I ever made started out in glorious conditions from Coolangatta (now Gold Coast International), info from the tower was for fine conditions, expect minor smoke/haze enroute to Sunshine Coast (45 mins north). Within ten minutes I was forced down to 500 agl in a brown smog, no visible horizon and could only see anything at all by looking straight down. It wasn't as if I flew into cloud or anything, I just got gradually immersed in the extensive bushfire smoke. I lost orientation and at that stage had only had very few precious minutes of instrument training which I think ultimately saved me because there are mountains not far to the left of track. ATC got miffed that I 'required' the lower level (built up suburban area)and repeatedly requested (insisted) that I return to the cleared level (about 2500 IIRC), which I couldn't because the ground disappeared as soon as I climbed a little. I made a clumsy approach and messy landing into Archerfield and flew back to Coolie late in the day when the seabreeze cleared the smoke. Since then I've always tried to have a working AH in anything I fly and practice some basic instrument flight regularly. On a different note, in the early stages every minute in the logbook is valued and logged time starts from engine start and ends at engine stop so there's no reason that I can see why you shouldn't log it, especially as it involved the most important part of flying which is making difficult decisions. And I reckon the flight school is mean to charge you when you never even got airborne, they should have recognised the conditions themselves, apart from being big enough to absorb the few pennies it costs for an engine start and shut-down. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultralights Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 As the old saying goes, better to be down here wishing you were up there, than up there, wishing you were down here. i was at Bankstown as well, Planning a trip to Jaspers brush, and came to the same conclusion, not worth the risk. i saw you taxi out, then come back in, very good decision. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayavner Posted October 28, 2013 Author Share Posted October 28, 2013 Thanks guys! hey UL, what were you in? Did you get as far as runup, or make the wise decision in the club before startup? Hoping its better this weekend, have a marathon tour of country NSW to do my XC solo and test! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 flying schools never miss an opportunity to pick up a quick $50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayavner Posted October 28, 2013 Author Share Posted October 28, 2013 yeah and i know they've been doing it tough, essentially being grounded iwth all the smoke. He spent 2 hours with me after the fact, drilling on all the nav stuff as well as the tower visit, so I still think its well-spent. anyone know though come to think of it what's the official word about logging time, does it have to include air time? .3 isn't going to make or break anything, just want to be accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 I'd log it. It's no different to doing a compass swing with all engines running. You have to have pilot qualifications to move a plane under it's own power on an aerodrome. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandit12 Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Yep, I would log it. Otherwise there would be an argument for not logging any taxi time, and for those of us who fly out of Moorabbin, that's half of my hours! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank marriott Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Flight Time (Aeroplane) Means the total time from the moment an aeroplane aircraft first moves for the purpose of taking-off until the moment at which it comes to rest at the end of the flight. CASA - Operations - Pilot Log Book - Crediting of Flight Time - Definitions 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrZoos Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 And the good news is you can log it and should. It was a very valuable experience. If your engine is running and you have proper intentions of flight you can an should log it.. That 0.3 is possibly the most important 0.3 hours you have spent in the cockpit. You certainly showed by your description that you where practicing excellent skills I had a similar situation, discussed it with the CFI and undoubtably its meant to be logged. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrZoos Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 See http://www.pprune.org/private-flying/422593-logging-taxi-time-aborted-flight.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayavner Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 Thanks for all the feedback guys, sounds like I should discuss this and see about getting it in the log, if nothing else so I can remember there are times when you don't get to fly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrZoos Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 It also says it in the front of your log book. From the moment the aircraft moves till final stop, "for the purpose of a flight". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultralights Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 hey UL, what were you in? Did you get as far as runup, or make the wise decision in the club before startup? If you see a Savannah or hear it on the radio, its me! we only got as far as the loungeroom in the hangar, rang up ATIS, heard 3000mtrs vis. looked outside, went to fridge, grabbed a beer and spent the rest of the arvo talking crap with instructors and other students. if you feel like a nav, and want to learn a little bit more, there is a free seminar on emergency manoeuvers at jaspers brush between 9 and 11 am. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayavner Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 I'd love to, been wanting to go down there and check out the club and visit with Motz... is this a monthly thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Those Pprune comments, generally amount to opinions.( Like us here) Your log book is supposed to be a record of aeronautical experience gained and in some cases includes jump seat time (which can be a required part of a training programme( and should be logged as proof of doing it). you also log the taxi time as you have done it and it is a record of your flying experience. Aircraft record flight time, separate from taxi time in the aircraft log book for other maintenance reasons, and things like fuel usage checks. If you have to reach certain "flying time" totals, I would not count taxi time. ( or jump seat time) Taxiing is a sequence in a lot of training records so again why not show it? .. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultralights Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 I'd love to, been wanting to go down there and check out the club and visit with Motz... is this a monthly thing? i usually go down there every few weeks, but the seminar is a once off so far. its about 45 mins each way in the Jab. , and log the taxi time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayavner Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 LOL, well yes i should make clear that I always log my time exactly as stated above, engine start till the time i roll to a stop and kill the engine. Hoping this is just a one-off, and the .3 hours won't kill me one way or the other, so I will ask my CFI if he has a compelling reason for me not to - or perhaps he just heard it from somewhere, dunno. I can see where the rule could be read both ways. UL i have my XC test and solos this weekend, when is it scheduled the seminar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultralights Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 9am to 11am, then BBQ lunch, then actual EMT flying training or aerobatics in a robin if you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Great idea this one. Hope you have good weather and a big response and many more of the same in the future. This is a good move and all those who do it will be much better pilots for having done it. Good insurance companies should give a discount for it. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank marriott Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Nev What I posted was the definition for recording of flight time in a log book. Not my opinion and anyone can gain their own opinion from the definition. For student purposes I would only say to comply with what ever your CFI/FI recommends. I think the definition is pretty clear, but that is an "opinion" and matters not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben87r Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Only time I don't log is if I've put an AC US either in the run up bay or aborted To, otherwise it's logged. Mind you in the above I'm also not paying for it so I think that might have something to do with it. But we also have an electronic log that we must match Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now