TRAFFIC

[Steve G]

ON OZR many have punched the Aircraft Icon and get OZRUNWAYS traffic from all over.

 

Some call-signs some not but at least an ICON.

 

S0mene at Nhill Air-show last year with an EFB told me they had all the traffic sorted out at 30 miles

 

OH YEAH?

 

The issues as I see them are this

 

ADSB TRAFFIC

 

VFR TRAFFIC not equipped with any mode.

 

VFR easy see and bee seen as CASA say

 

ADSB easy buy an OPEN FLIGHT SOLUTIONS ADSB IN box and wifi connect it to the IPAD MINI using STRATUX

 

ISSUES

 

STRATUX uses 192.168.10.1 and IPADS don't, can be made but don't

 

OZRUNWAYS cant use the GPS hooked up to the STRATUX ADSB In BOX.

 

On ADSB IN you cant see the ozrunways traffic.

 

4G does not cover 90%of OZ Try the Grampians and west as an example.. cells don't work well at altitude, out in the boondocks why cos 4G is designed to cover highways and directional down tilted antennas are in situ beaming down the highways were the general population travel in autos. Ask Telstra is 4G designed for aircraft and they laugh at you.

 

Re traffic OZR and AV

 

They are working on it.

 

In the mean time VFR rules apply until someone comes up with a compatible traffic solution.

 

 

[Rowan]

Sorry I'm not quite following the OP here, but here's some facts:

 

- Australia has more like 90% 3G/4G coverage in semi-rural and populated areas, especially over the J-curve up the east coast & inland VIC/NSW/QLD.

 

- Stratux broadcasts as a WiFi hotspot. You connect your iPad to it in iPad Settings → Wifi, then in OzRunways put in 192.168.10.1 in the Settings → Traffic section. You will see ADS-B aircraft alongside OzRunways internal traffic.

 

- OzRunways also uses its own traffic system over 3G/4G using tiny UDP packets optimised for transit over poor network conditions. See here for details: Creating OzRunways traffic

 

- You can view all live flights running OzRunways here: Tracking | OzRunways Tx | RWY Tx

 

- See & Avoid is still primary method of traffic avoidance for VFR aircraft. Use these features to assist safety, not as a replacement for a good lookout.

 

We don't maintain a watch of these forums, so please contact us at help.ozrunways.com for any questions.

 

 

[coljones]

Sorry I'm not quite following the OP here, but here's some facts:- Australia has more like 90% 3G/4G coverage in semi-rural and populated areas, especially over the J-curve up the east coast & inland VIC/NSW/QLD.

- Stratux broadcasts as a WiFi hotspot. You connect your iPad to it in iPad Settings → Wifi, then in OzRunways put in 192.168.10.1 in the Settings → Traffic section. You will see ADS-B aircraft alongside OzRunways internal traffic.

 

- OzRunways also uses its own traffic system over 3G/4G using tiny UDP packets optimised for transit over poor network conditions. See here for details: Creating OzRunways traffic

 

- You can view all live flights running OzRunways here: Tracking | OzRunways Tx | RWY Tx

 

- See & Avoid is still primary method of traffic avoidance for VFR aircraft. Use these features to assist safety, not as a replacement for a good lookout.

 

We don't maintain a watch of these forums, so please contact us at help.ozrunways.com for any questions.

Neat. I can open it on my android and pan and zoom. I can only pan it on my laptop.

What other goodies do you have hidden on your website?

 

 

[Steve G]

A few facts about 4G to report alarms back to our Operational Control.

 

MT WILLIAM 5000 Feet AMSL 15 K from western highway

 

The only way we could get a cell lock was to aim a LONG YAGI at DADSWELLS BRIDGE and decline it at a 15 degree down angle

 

Whips did not work on the 4G modem on that site a mile high.

 

you could see towns all around in every direction with cell coverage.

 

I asked my Telstra Manager why and he said QUOTE

 

The maps are for ground level coverage.

 

4G cells have directional antenna aimed at highways out in the countryside.

 

He was not surprised we had issues a mile up on Mt William.

 

He specifically said use of phones from planes was not envisaged by TELSTRA

 

Use of cellphones in country Australia away from highways and byways is guaranteed to fail.

 

e.g. In VIC VALLEY at 2000 feet there is no CELL COVERAGE and often at cell boundaries like Hamilton airport you get drop outs as the phone tries to lock on Mt Dundas Dunkeld or Hamilton

 

In a plane you aren't even using an antenna on an ipad but an internal one as with most phones.

 

so efficiency will be 2% at best.

 

Its why Telstra have tradie phones and high efficiency phones with aerials.

 

Phones in cars without car kits drop out without external aerials as soon as you leave the highway.

 

No doubt different stories different towns.

 

If you don't believe come to my town go to the airport and walk around while you try to order a taxi.

 

2 cents.

 

 

[Rowan]

Steve,

 

2% efficiency is all we need! We're not talking about browsing Facebook or making phone calls. We're talking about a 500 byte UDP packet every 5 seconds, not chatty bandwidth hungry TCP.

 

Here's a good example: https://tx.ozrunways.com/tracks?flight=7229f85e-840c-4f56-a6c0-2c8b2ae974a0&type=kml (open in Google Earth) A flight from Home Valley Station in WA to Halls Creek by one of our staff. Not a highway in sight and no cell coverage on the ground, but a few packets as soon as we're airborne. Then a short gap, then almost continuous coverage all the way to Hall's Creek no higher than 5,000. He actively avoided another aircraft crossing his path within a mile or two and 500 feet. Then used it to coordinate with other scenic aircraft over the Bungle Bungles.

 

Here's another good one: Bourke to Old Station at 9,000. A few minute long outages is all there is. https://tx.ozrunways.com/tracks?flight=787979c6-0a4a-4391-bdf6-fb7d7cee5d95&type=kml

 

Near towns where aircraft actually converge, coverage is 100%.

 

Telstra has no idea how good their network actually is from a few thousand feet up. Probably because they never actually tested it that way! :)

 

The proof is in the data. We have that in 411,824 logged flights as of this moment. I suggest you go fly and try it our for yourself!

 

 

[Rowan]

Neat. I can open it on my android and pan and zoom. I can only pan it on my laptop.

On the laptop, you zoom with the scroll wheel, just like on Google Maps proper! :)

 

 

[nickduncs84]

I've flown over some pretty darn remote places with OzR and have found very few black spots. Even in the middle of dingo woop woop. A recent trip from QLD to Adelaide for example I had service pretty much the whole way. I've flown over the Grampians a couple of times and never noticed a lost signal. I've got an ADSB receiver as well which works great. It's not meant to replace your eyes, but as an aid it's a big help. I was flying out of Narromine once and about 10 miles out I hadn't yet heard any calls from traffic in the area. On OzR I saw a big long line of fox bats coming straight at me. Made it easy to spot as we got closer knowing they were there. It ain't perfect, but neither is expecting everyone to see everyone else and use their radio as they are supposed to. Every little bit helps.

 

 

[Robbo]

I've got an ADSB receiver as well which works great. It's not meant to replace your eyes, but as an aid it's a big help.

What model?

 

 

[nickduncs84]

Just one of those Rasberry Pi Wifi things. Open Flight Solutions

 

 

[Robbo]

Open Flight Solutions[/url]

Nice, I was going to buy one of these

Stratus™ 2S ADS-B Receiver for iPad

 

 

[nickduncs84]

Nice, I was going to buy one of theseStratus™ 2S ADS-B Receiver for iPad

Yeah that's the fancy one! Got a couple of cool extra features I think?? I think it may hook up with AvPlan to provide synthetic vision??

 

 

[Rowan]

There's Stratus & Stratux.

 

Stratux by cyoung (Stratux) = Raspberry Pi ADS-B IN.

 

ADS-B In (Stratus) = Custom box ADS-B IN, GPS, AHRS and other things only available in USA such as inflight weather.

 

 

[Geoff13]

How did you with the question about the Mag variation on wind Rowan?

 

 

[Kununurra]

How does it go ? "you just can't please some people"

 

I have always found better coverage in the air than on the ground and I thought that was to do with aerials.

 

Home valley is a great example no coverage near the resort but if you head up the hill along the Gibb & you will run into lots of people making calls with good Telstra coverage even able to get internet connection.

 

I did a trip from Albany (WA) to Wyndham in the East Kimberley with OzRunways all the way. It may have dropped out some time but my head was more outside the cockpit than in.

 

No matter what system we use in my opinion it should only be thought of as a tool in the toolkit not the be all and end all.

 

Steve G you have provided great feedback for the OzRunways team to work on, and also made a lot more people aware of some black spots.

 

Cheers

 

 

[ben87r]

I haven't flown the area that Steve is talking about but, the Kimberley I had enough reception nearly everywhere to make a phone call and recently flew SYD-CNS and had reception nearly the whole way. That's with Telstra, one of my Pax had Optus, had no reception at all. When I was in the NT we didn't get any anywhere but that's a while ago now and I believe it's changed.

 

Testing the memory now but if I remember correctly most of SA had it.

 

Most of the remote communities don't have reception on the ground but onece at circuit height usually have it back.

 

 

[Bevan]

Yeah that's the fancy one! Got a couple of cool extra features I think?? I think it may hook up with AvPlan to provide synthetic vision??

AvPlan EFB works with every commercial ADSB-in box EXCEPT the Stratus 2S (from Appareo) and the Garmin GDL39. It works with the Stratux and the other raspberry pi based systems as well.

 

 

[Love to fly]

AvPlan EFB works with every commercial ADSB-in box EXCEPT the Stratus 2S (from Appareo) and the Garmin GDL39. It works with the Stratux and the other raspberry pi based systems as well.

Without any add ons does AvPlan show only other AvPlan traffic? Or is it picking it up from somewhere else?

 

 

[Bevan]

Without any add ons does AvPlan show only other AvPlan traffic? Or is it picking it up from somewhere else?

Just other AvPlan EFB users at this stage.

 

 

[Love to fly]

Just other AvPlan EFB users at this stage.

Thanks Bevan. Any plans to expand this?

 

 

[Robbo]

Would be good to somehow receive the flightradar24.com feed.

 

 

[Happyflyer]

Would be good if Avpan and Ozrunways could do a deal and show each others as well as their own traffic.

 

 

[onetrack]

I have 2 mates who are ex-Telstra linies and they advise me that any digital phone connectability at height in the sky, is just sheer good luck.

 

They told me about 15-20 deg above the horizon is generally about the maximum angle of the signal from the towers. If you have a tower in a raised location, or it's pretty flat country, you're in luck to a certain degree.

 

However, the greatest problem is, that the digital phone signal is weak at best.

 

My mates reckon 10-15kms range is the original calculated coverage - thus the reason for the need for lots more towers today, as compared to analogue.

 

I can remember when I had a 3W Uniden "brick" phone in 1990, I made a call to Perth from Wandering (110kms S of Perth), standing on a hill on the farm.

 

I later found out that the signal bounced to Geraldton, and then was bounced back to Perth! What a pity we couldn't still get that range with digital!

 

 

[Robbo]

I have 2 mates who are ex-Telstra linies and they advise me that any digital phone connectability at height in the sky, is just sheer good luck. They told me about 15-20 deg above the horizon is generally about the maximum angle of the signal from the towers. If you have a tower in a raised location, or it's pretty flat country, you're in luck to a certain degree.

However, the greatest problem is, that the digital phone signal is weak at best.

 

My mates reckon 10-15kms range is the original calculated coverage - thus the reason for the need for lots more towers today, as compared to analogue.

 

I can remember when I had a 3W Uniden "brick" phone in 1990, I made a call to Perth from Wandering (110kms S of Perth), standing on a hill on the farm.

 

I later found out that the signal bounced to Geraldton, and then was bounced back to Perth! What a pity we couldn't still get that range with digital!

Never had a problem up to at least 8,000ft

 

 

[Happyflyer]

I must have lots of sheer good luck too. Doesn't extent to lotto though!

 

 

[onetrack]

Never had a problem up to at least 8,000ft

You've got lucky pretty regularly then! Or more importantly - you've been regularly close to major hwys and populated areas, where phone towers are in numbers. Get outside the populated areas, or more than about 30kms from an arterial road, and you'll soon find you have no signal. Geez, I'm struggling to get a viable signal on the ground, through vast areas of W.A.'s wheatbelt!