danny_galaga Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 As per topic. I guess one of my main questions is that it seems you need to pay club fees to own a hangar which makes sense because those fees would go towards the airfields upkeep. But what if you are renting? I’d like to think it would be like renting a house- the tenant usually doesn’t pay council rates etc. but is that so? What other things does one need to consider? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaba-who Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 As per topic. I guess one of my main questions is that it seems you need to pay club fees to own a hangar which makes sense because those fees would go towards the airfields upkeep. But what if you are renting? I’d like to think it would be like renting a house- the tenant usually doesn’t pay council rates etc. but is that so?What other things does one need to consider? Cost is obviously the overriding factor. Which one is the overall cheapest is highly variable depending on location, local demand, local costs etc. almost a case of every situation is different. If you rent then “usually” you pay a fixed agreed amount per week/fortnight/month. Usually rates leases etc are then paid for by the owner (obviously out of the rent you’ve paid but they don’t send you the invoice etc. ) Most arrangements I have been in and seen the tenant doesn’t pay the electricity or the water or other utilities. That comes out of the rent. I guess individual arrangements could be different. I’ve both shared rent and now own (half share) hangarage. The biggest advantage of owning a hangar is you get some control over who else is in there with you. Also you can do it up, change it as you like. We have installed accomodation in ours as it’s an hour and a bit drive from home town and it’s nice to stay there over weekends. In my hangar As we both have home built jabs we do our own maintenance so we have been able to set up a good workshop and have everything we need there. Difficult to do that in a shared rental situation ( or at least not having things disappear). I looked at buying another for renting out and we have rented ours out for a while. There’s no money in it. Generally your costs always exceed what you are going to get back. Capital gains seems to vary from place to place. Demand can go up and down as well. Another immoral and extortionate consideration is that many airports have in the contract/lease that after a certain number of years the ownership of the hangar reverts to the airport owners. Be careful of that. We have a scenario here that people bought hangars at huge prices then the airport owners changed the master plan and refused to renew leases and then stung the owners by taking their hangars off them too. One guy tried to pull his hangar down - court injunction by owners stopped him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tucano Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Unless you own the site - rent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BirdDog Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 I have recently had my aircraft moved to a new hangar! (New for me) and I am renting the space. The hangar is shared between 2 birds, but both have independent access - in that - both birds can get in and out without the other being moved. I am happy to share the space, as it's clean, modern and perfect for me. The key I think is a good relationship with the owner. Communication is the key and respect the property that's not yours. I would love to say I can buy my own, but right now that is not financially viable, so I am happy to have her in a rented space. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 Rent is the best way. Owning a hangar is never a certainty. All you really own is the metal, the concrete is as useless as concrete is when no longer needed. I wouldn't trust any airport owner!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tucano Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 I agree on ownership - A registered title with the lands office is the only agreement that lasts but ownership its not cheap and looked at as a long term investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 One of the biggest negatives of renting is the lack of long term security. Some time ago I was renting a space from a friend. He sold the hangar and moved on. The new owner wanted the whole space for himself so we were out. We were lucky another space was available immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danny_galaga Posted April 9, 2018 Author Share Posted April 9, 2018 Ok, sounds more like I will rent, and if I get kicked out, at worst will have to fly to another strip for a hanger :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 I own a half share in a hangar at Goolwa, have done for years, on a 25 year lease. It is a private airport and the owner Geoff Eastwood has been really proactive in improving the whole airport. Main runway has been lengthened (and is sealed) , 2 grass crosswind strips have been improved. I trust him, he has given me excellent advice, has loaned me equipment. The benefits of having a “benevolent dictator “ are huge. The benefits of owning the hangar are being able to modify it, solar power, work benches, tables chairs gas cooker for cuppa’s. Keeping all tools on site, very helpful if you do all your own maintenance. Extremely useful when finishing my homebuild aircraft. I have no regrets about having bought in, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmccarthy Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 I enjoy owning my own hangar. On a council lease, but there is no way they would kick us out, as the relationship is mutually strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pbrook Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 I own my own hangar at Keith ,SA, much the best, council owned land, but was given to Council several years ago by the landholder to provide an airstrip for the flying doctor. Don't see any long term problems with council, rate on land minimal compared to what I hear others are paying to rent space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaba-who Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 Rent is the best way. Owning a hangar is never a certainty. All you really own is the metal, the concrete is as useless as concrete is when no longer needed. I wouldn't trust any airport owner!! I think you could just as correctly have said “renting a hangar is never a certainty.” I have rented and owned and it’s very much dependant on the local situation. I think every situation is so independent and modified by its own variables that it’s hard to generalize. I think it’s a case of do your homework first no matter what you are planning so you minimize the risks. Always going to be pros and cons. On balance in my situation buying was the best option despite some negative bits to it. But then while I was renting (at a different airport) that was the best option. The guys who bought got stung. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunder Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 You throw the dice.... and make your choice. I own my hangar on a council airport (leased land). Bitumen strip, taxiways. PAL lighting. Ablutions. No one goes into my hangar except me. No one touches my aircraft except me. I have built some minor accommodation and small kitchen. A workshop on the side. Too many stories for me of aircraft owners who rent having others move their aircraft or mess with it, damage it. Especially when the hangar owner has crammed in as many "renters" as they can... I have personally had to grab and hold down an aircraft left outside a hangar while another aircraft was taken out and flown. I spoke to the pilot when he returned but he really didn't care.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cscotthendry Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 We have always rented and mostly have had no issues. In one rented hangar, one of the other tenants was a tiger moth joyride business. They used to leave the hangar door open when they took someone up and we had a few tools and bits and pieces go missing, but nothing serious. WRT to buying, you're investing a lot of money into an asset that has a small resale market. So if you buy, expect it to take a while to sell when you need to. That said, at almost every airfield I've been to, hangar space is at a premium. I'm not sure though how that would translate if you were looking to sell a hangar. Also, owning a hangar ties you to that airfield. If you need or want to move, or something happens at the airfield that changes the conditions like the local or airfield council suddenly jack up the rates etc, then you are stuck with that until you can sell the hangar. Also, as others have said, if the local council decides to sell the airfield to property developers, where does that leave you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 You throw the dice.... and make your choice.I own my hangar on a council airport (leased land). Bitumen strip, taxiways. PAL lighting. Ablutions.No one goes into my hangar except me. No one touches my aircraft except me. I have built some minor accommodation and small kitchen. A workshop on the side. Too many stories for me of aircraft owners who rent having others move their aircraft or mess with it, damage it. Especially when the hangar owner has crammed in as many "renters" as they can... I have personally had to grab and hold down an aircraft left outside a hangar while another aircraft was taken out and flown. I spoke to the pilot when he returned but he really didn't care.... Sadly this is often the case. Be nice to own a hangar but cost, the chance of it being not secure for me outweighs the positives of owning one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 We have always rented and mostly have had no issues. In one rented hangar, one of the other tenants was a tiger moth joyride business. They used to leave the hangar door open when they took someone up and we had a few tools and bits and pieces go missing, but nothing serious.WRT to buying, you're investing a lot of money into an asset that has a small resale market. So if you buy, expect it to take a while to sell when you need to. That said, at almost every airfield I've been to, hangar space is at a premium. I'm not sure though how that would translate if you were looking to sell a hangar. Also, owning a hangar ties you to that airfield. If you need or want to move, or something happens at the airfield that changes the conditions like the local or airfield council suddenly jack up the rates etc, then you are stuck with that until you can sell the hangar. Also, as others have said, if the local council decides to sell the airfield to property developers, where does that leave you? Well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poteroo Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 at almost every airfield I've been to, hangar space is at a premium That's a fact. In our case, it's been because of the reluctlance of the owner,(the City Council), to survey off more sites, due I'm sure, to the fact that the whole airport has drainage issues never foreseen way back when. Those are just being sorted and then there will be more sites. However, the price of steel, building costs, and building codes/essentials have skyrocketed in recent years and a hangar isn't just a cheap farm shed anymore. What I built in 1998 for around $35k, is now probably only replaceable for $80k? As well, site lease costs are now around $10/m2/yr - which in my case, with 330m2 to lease, it becomes a costly annual bill. Hangarkeepers insurance cover is also growing alarmingly, and it's another essential for us. All of the above means less pilots can afford to build their own. Hangarage 'rental' costs vary widely in the West, but $35/wk seems common for a smallish aircraft. But wait, there's more: hangar owners usually have a lease document 40 pages long, in which sub leasing is verboten. Sensibly, airport management doesn't look too hard at this aspect' or there'd be a mob of aircraft hangared under blue sky! Hangar 'rash' is avoided by all 'tenants' using utmost care. My hangar sharing pilots have managed to not scrape anything in 20 years, so it's possible. Yes, it can be a bit of a hassle, but common sense prevails here. Do you want your bird under cover or not? happy days, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 $35 a week? Christ I'm moving over there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewy Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 I own my own hangar and think the benefits outweigh the costs for me I used to have my plane in a shared hangar and it cost me bugger all but the thought of damaging someone else’s plane or even worse to me would be to get accused of damaging it and not having done so used to give me an uneasy feeling. I built my hangar for MY convenience and MY piece of mind. I like to shoot out to the airport after work on a nice evening and just go for a fly if I feel like it ( the joys of county living and a close airport ) where as before my plane would be behind others and it just felt to hard for what I wanted to do (20 min moving planes for 30 mins flying ) lazy maybe. I have plenty of room 15m x 15m hangar for a J160 Jab, can even do the run ups in there if I want and no other planes rent any space and I don’t want them on a full time basis either for the same reasons mentioned above. Plus I refuse to take out insurance for other people’s planes in my hangar for the same reason Poteroo states above its to bloody expensive for the return to me. It may not suit everyone to own there own hangar but for me it is worth the expense for convenience and piece of mind. Regards Stewy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 you run up your engine inside the hangar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewy Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Nup but plenty of room if I felt the urge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 Rent unless you have money to burn...mathmatically you are far better off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 You can buy one of the new hangars at YCAB if you have a spare $182,500...then about 4K per year lease fee hang 10 will just go and dig up my tin in the back yard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danny_galaga Posted April 11, 2018 Author Share Posted April 11, 2018 If I bought one it would be to house two and rent one space out. But looking at the comments I would probably have the WORST of both worlds doing that :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 Most hangars are much larger than they need to be and therefore cost more for no real benefit if you only want yr own machine in it. Shame there's not more 'T' hangars avail, smaller footprint cheaper to build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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