Kyle Communications Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 I am no conspiracy dude but I do try to keep an open mind on things and like to see facts. This is a group of pilots who use their skills to look at the actual information and let you decide. They do show both sides. There is a video of Flight 77 about halfway down the page it goes for about 50 mins but shows some pretty scarey stuff using actual footage and NTSB "information" that does not make sense. I found this to be the most credible site on all the 911 stuff so far...if you have the time to spend read the site and look at the videos and see if you have any different views after doing so. let us know what you think about it here http://pilotsfor911truth.org/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cscotthendry Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 The idea of "false flag attacks" is not new and has been used to aid or topple governments regularly. Given the unpopularity of GW Bush after he was installed as president by a conservative court against the popular vote going to Al Gore, it's is concievable that his supporters enabled such a thing to shore up support for him. Poor Fella My Country, as an American, I am deeply troubled and ashamed by the damage that the GW Bush administration did to my country and the world as a whole. My earnest wish is that the Republicans in their current form, NEVER again be allowed to hold the reins of power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 I'm a real skeptic of conspiracy theories. A friend sent me a video made by 'Architects and Engineers for 911 truth' and since I work closely with both Archs and Engs, and have a great deal of respect for both, he thought that I would watch it promptly. But when he said that I'd be convinced that the Republican Bush Govt and/or the CIA must have been responsible for 911 and blew up the buildings themselves I put the video on the shelf and there it stayed until one night when I'd run out of movies to watch. From then on I have no doubt whatsoever that the 911 fiasco was staged by Bush and or CIA. I know it all seems too fantastic to believe and I'm not the one who could convince anyone, you have to see and absorb the evidence yourself. However, since the most highly respected Archs and Engineers in the world agree that the buildings were blown up by pre-laid charges and the plane crashes were just a cover and could not have brought down the twin towers let alone the other WTC buildings that weren't even hit, then their endorsement provides a very powerful argument. Here is a link to the website where you can acquire the original A&E investigation video. http://www.ae911truth.org/ There are snippets of the video on their website and I would highly recommend that anyone who thinks that Governments or their Agencies have the welfare of the population in mind rather than their own greedy agendas, should order a copy of the video. I got hold of a bunch of them and mailed them to some of the most intelligent and skeptical people I know and every one of them has had to agree that all the evidence points to it being an 'inside job'. Following that I watched a movie called 'W' which gave an 'inside' portrayal of GWB and seemed to verify that he really was the bungling fool that he always appeared to be, and his close association and business dealings with the Bin Laden family seem almost too fantastic to be true, except that all the evidence is delivered and completely check-able by anyone. This more recent investigation by airline pilots and their Associations certainly adds even more credibility to the conspiracy theory being fact rather than fiction. I just continue to wonder how and if anyone will ever be brought to justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted December 21, 2012 Author Share Posted December 21, 2012 I just watched that 15 min video you linked to. I hadnt seen that before it is interesting about the Thermite too. I have seen quite a few of the videos done on 911 and as I said I am not really a conspiracy theorist but I do believe there is way too much credible evidence that all the buildings were bought down. The Pilots one I posted this link originally about gives a very different account on the other side of the coin. I cant believe that there hasn't been a huge flood of americans demonstrating in the streets to get the truth. I have no doubt that it was a govt job to promote war...as we know america was going broke and what is the best thing for a country that is going broke...how do you wake up the economy.....have a war of course. I do actually believe they did land on the moon...even though I have seen some good videos about a hoax...but there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that they did travel to the moon so that one is a bit different Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandit12 Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 I love a good conspiracy theory but have to wait till I get home to have a look at these ones. One thing that always concerns me with regards to a conspiracy is the number of people involved, and the extent to which a government or organisation would have to go to ensure that the truth never comes out. Just how many people would have known or be involved in it and how would you ensure that their knowledge and involvement remains hidden? If it is a big conspiracy, the odds are good that there may be quite a number of people involved, which increases the chance of the word getting out..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 With so many people required to keep their mouths shut, it would be impossible to get away with it in a western society, certainly over time. Americans seem to love conspiracy theories and mistrust of governments. I can't be bothered putting the time into these sorts of things because you can't rely on the material you get. You can't trust any sources of info because there are many well resourced organised persons deliberately putting out mis information for their own self interest. The truth is hard to find, when so many try to hide it. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cscotthendry Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 It doesn't even have to be a conspiracy to act directly. All they had to do was to strategically de-fund or re-task key parts of agencies tasked with preventing such things and let the protagonists accomplish their aims. In retrospect, there is NOTHING that I would consider too evil for the GW Bush administration to contemplate doing. It was a perfect storm of corporate and political interests using a group of evil minded and incompetent people. It has been proven that while Dick Cheney was VP, his wife was a director of Haliburton (in his stead) all the while lucrative government contracts for the "reconstruction" of Iraq were being slung to Haliburton. When pressed about this obvious conflict of interests, Cheney's response was "So what?" They were openly stacking the judicial system and regulatory bodies with political toadies. It is simply breathtaking how openly evil and corrupt they were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 A grim group of what could eventually be acurately described as "WAR CRIMINALS. Bush a borne again christian ex substance abuser was only the front man...(Called BABY Bush by Saddam) Almost all Cargo going into Bhagdad was Haliburton. Incidently the underspec cement that helped the oil blowout that BP mainly was blamed for was Haliburton. Talk about corruption. DID you ever see any of the series "That's My Bush" ?Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 I love a good conspiracy theory but have to wait till I get home to have a look at these ones. One thing that always concerns me with regards to a conspiracy is the number of people involved, and the extent to which a government or organisation would have to go to ensure that the truth never comes out. Just how many people would have known or be involved in it and how would you ensure that their knowledge and involvement remains hidden? If it is a big conspiracy, the odds are good that there may be quite a number of people involved, which increases the chance of the word getting out..... Yes, I couldn't agree more, and what ae911truth are saying is that the word is getting out. And if you see the full video and not just the snippets on the website then the argument becomes frighteningly compelling. How they keep the mouths shut, of those that would have to have some knowledge is interesting too, some research into the workings of the FBI under Hoover is chilling enough to show one way they do it, reward and/or threat is the standard process. And remembering that those who know only got to know little bits of the story, not enough to complete the jigsaw. And then watch the movie W and see dubya's methods of playing (or actually being) plain blind ignorant of the facts and so avoiding answering any questions about just about anything at all, it would seem he was never anything but his father's puppet. With so many people required to keep their mouths shut, it would be impossible to get away with it in a western society, certainly over time. Americans seem to love conspiracy theories and mistrust of governments. I can't be bothered putting the time into these sorts of things because you can't rely on the material you get. You can't trust any sources of info because there are many well resourced organised persons deliberately putting out mis information for their own self interest. The truth is hard to find, when so many try to hide it. Nev This is very disappointing from someone who portrays themself as a facthunter. If you dismiss the author and the subject without reading the book, so to speak, you would make a great example of how these things are easily covered up. Simply make the conspiracy so wild and so blatant that the majority of folk act just as you have done, stating that it's too absurd to be possible. If you outrage the average citizen sufficiently they'll close their eyes, shut their mouths and block their ears... and then you have achieved your objective of getting away with it. Bear in mind people don't want to know about de-stabilising matters and will choose not to believe what they don't want to be happening, that's very basic psychology. As a perpetrator of these kind of events you don't have to fool everybody - as long as the majority reject the truth of it you have won because you just run a simple background campaign to ridicule the whistleblowers. However if you stop a moment and consider that the most respected Engineers and Architects, the people actually responsible for building these and other similar towers, state categorically that the buildings were demolished by explosives not by aircraft impact. These are Archs and Engs from around the world who have no vested interest and no axe to grind. Most interesting of all in the released video evidence are - when the towers collapsed both of them exhibited the rubble to be in freefall not the lower floors collapsing due to pressure from above - that can only happen if the lower floors are blown apart and also falling before the floors above hit them. Visible explosions happening on lower floors at exactly the frequency that demolition blasts would need to be set to have the effect that took place. The presence of large amounts of thermite that could only have been placed there as a part of high explosives - where else would it have come from? Buildings that weren't even hit came down exhibiting similar demolition-type explosions floor by floor. And most fantastic of all, the BBC reporter who announced the collapse of building 7 well before it started to come down and when it was still to be seen standing in the background...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgwilson Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 I haven't had time to check out this video yet but I remember a doco less than a year after the event I think on Discovery or somewhere like that called "Loose Change" where the conspiracy theory was first aired. This showed the charges going off that supposedly brought the buildings down among many other things. They did get a lot of things wrong though like where was the wreckage of the A/C that hit the Pentagon. It was later shown that an impact with this sort of force vaporises everything. The only thing that I can't work out is if it was a GWB insider conspiracy how have they managed to shut everyone up & there must have been a lot of them. Money, brainwashing, accidents, hitmen etc, eventually someone will spill the beans IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Deskpilot1 Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 With so many people required to keep their mouths shut, it would be impossible to get away with it in a western society, certainly over time. Americans seem to love conspiracy theories and mistrust of governments. I can't be bothered putting the time into these sorts of things because you can't rely on the material you get. You can't trust any sources of info because there are many well resourced organised persons deliberately putting out mis information for their own self interest. The truth is hard to find, when so many try to hide it. Nev I think not. Look at how long they managed to fly the SS-71 Blackbird and stealth aircraft before they, the government, released the info them selves. These people are brain washed into silence. Threatened into silence. Annihilated into silence. All because no one with a face is in charge over there. The President certainly does not run the country. And no, I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I certainly wouldn't believe anything that came from the mouths of the 'front men'. It'll be interesting to see what happens to those from Pilotsfor911truth.org in the next year or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirsty1 Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Sorry kg there is no way a plane can crash with sufficient force to vaporise the entire vehicle. Unless of course it were travelling supersonically perhaps. Could you point us to where you saw that explanation? The thing about the pentagon crash was the lack of real damage to the building. If the plane really hit it with enough force to vaporise it surely the building must have sustained a lot more damage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cscotthendry Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 With so many people required to keep their mouths shut, it would be impossible to get away with it in a western society, certainly over time. Americans seem to love conspiracy theories and mistrust of governments. I can't be bothered putting the time into these sorts of things because you can't rely on the material you get. You can't trust any sources of info because there are many well resourced organised persons deliberately putting out mis information for their own self interest. The truth is hard to find, when so many try to hide it. Nev I agree that this would be the case in a situation like the moon landings. However in a situation where speaking out may result in criminal charges, or worse yet, someone very powerful putting a price on your head, it may be easier to keep people quiet. Finally, a lot of people may not realise that they hold a very small fragment of a larger story. If you were a clerk somewhere and got re-assigned, would you know that you were part of a wider conspiracy? Maybe, maybe not. For an interesting perspective on this last point, watch the movie Breach. The agent that was tasked to spy on Robert Hanssen wasn't aware at first that he was spying on the man the government already knew was the biggest security leak in US history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 I agree that this would be the case in a situation like the moon landings. However in a situation where speaking out may result in criminal charges, or worse yet, someone very powerful putting a price on your head, it may be easier to keep people quiet. Finally, a lot of people may not realise that they hold a very small fragment of a larger story. If you were a clerk somewhere and got re-assigned, would you know that you were part of a wider conspiracy? Maybe, maybe not. For an interesting perspective on this last point, watch the movie Breach. The agent that was tasked to spy on Robert Hanssen wasn't aware at first that he was spying on the man the government already knew was the biggest security leak in US history. Yes Scott, and I don't think most Aussies have any idea of how different the culture and general way of thinking in US is, compared to the way Aussies think. People here feel free to be very outspoken about things, people and organisations. But if speaking about some of those things in the States - please correct me if I'm wrong about this - hushed tones and furtive glances would be more the order of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 HITC I have quite a full life. If there are facts to be brought up they will be whether I look into it or not. We can't all be across all things. I do things I feel I can competently do. I do keep an open mind . I only said I don't chase up much of this kind of thing because I don't believe I can access the true information and expert opinion I would need to make a decision., any better than the next person..MY opinion doesn't count One iota. I understand it was a Japanese design and that the heat of the fuel burning was the cause of the collapse of the affected floor. I watched both of these buildings come down on the original sightings, as it happened. The aircraft wouldn't be pulverised initially and the two engines went straight through the building. When they collapsed the energy was sufficient to reduce most of the material to fine dust. and at quite a high temperature . Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Sure FH, no problem with that but perhaps it'd be better not to comment in the first place then, since you say you're not interested in the newer information? Unfortunately most of what you say above is erroneous and based on first observations and very incorrect early reports, 11 yrs down the track a fair bit more has been discovered about the event... :-) Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octave Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Engineers in the world agree that the buildings were blown up by pre-laid charges and the plane crashes were just a cover and could not have brought down the twin towers let alone the other WTC buildings that weren't even hit, then their endorsement provides a very powerful argument. http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/06-09-11/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Spot on Octave! Have you researched the publishers of the skeptic site? Did you see what I said about ridiculing/discrediting whistleblowers? On a relatively minute scale did you see what a similar site tried to do right here in Qld to those who were worried about Jayant Patel's murderous incompetence, and had the guts to say something? A website with a couple of spindoctors refuting what the most knowledgeable and respected Engineers and Archs have to say is a powerful and inexpensive tool. So its a matter for each to make their own minds up, sadly most will do so without bothering to even look at the evidence and just take the easy option that doesn't upset their sensibilities. So thanks for the post but what is your considered opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cscotthendry Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Yes Scott, and I don't think most Aussies have any idea of how different the culture and general way of thinking in US is, compared to the way Aussies think. People here feel free to be very outspoken about things, people and organisations. But if speaking about some of those things in the States - please correct me if I'm wrong about this - hushed tones and furtive glances would be more the order of the day. Well, I wouldn't go so far as to say that things are spoken in "hushed tones" more like shouted at each other these days, LOL. But there is a LOT of misinformation peddled by the Murdoch media, most notably by Fox News. It is a right wing propaganda machine advocating mostly corporate interests. It is mostly consumed by what is termed in the US as "low information voters" which is a euphemism for wilfully ignorant people. Such people do not respond to facts but deal in beliefs. The Tea party is funded and promoted by wealthy interests but largely subscribed to by Fox News viewers. Louis Theroux did some interesting docos on the Tea party people at a Mitt Romney rally. It would be hilarious if it weren't for the fact that these people are allowed to vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octave Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 well I did watch the flight 77 video, so if slightly inaccurate flight data records doesn't make sense what about a plane load of missing passengers. I didn't find much hard evidence in this video but a lot of conjecture. I don't agree that this hypothesis most easily fits the evidence. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof and so far I haven't seen any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winsor68 Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 YOU DON'T WANT THE TRUTH... Once you realize (and if you look with an open mind you WILL) that this was an inside job... you won't forget. I wish I didn't. It wasn't just GW Bush... What about the Australian Wheat Board. Anyone really believe our Government didn't know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 I dunno who you're responding to 68 but I agree with all of it 100% Go the rant!! ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winsor68 Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 It makes me feel sick to know this and look at my daughter.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Deskpilot1 Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 well I did watch the flight 77 video, so if slightly inaccurate flight data records doesn't make sense what about a plane load of missing passengers. I didn't find much hard evidence in this video but a lot of conjecture. I don't agree that this hypothesis most easily fits the evidence. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof and so far I haven't seen any. IF this was a government (faceless part) operation, taking a plane out to sea and destroying it would have been a minor problem "In for a penny, in for pound" come to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 It makes me feel sick to know this and look at my daughter.... Ah, now I see what you mean W68, but I wouldn't stress over it, it's not as if it's something new, the same sort of thing has been going on for centuries... everyone knew about it back then and had no choice except to put up with it. These days they got better at convincing the masses that they were squeaky clean so it's a shock when folks find out about it, but the thing that hasn't changed is everyone's still not got much choice except to put up with it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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