kgwilson Posted May 25, 2021 Share Posted May 25, 2021 TCAS of course is now basically obsolete but as it costs between $25K & $125K to fit and it is standard in commercial aircraft and is approved by CAA organisations around the world it is here to stay even though something like a Skyecho 2 has almost twice the range is accurate and cheaper than chips. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfly Posted May 30, 2021 Author Share Posted May 30, 2021 (edited) An article from this weeks Air Facts Journal : Preventable rendezvous: avoiding a mid-air collision MAY 24, 2021/34 COMMENTS/BY ENDERSON RAFAEL https://airfactsjournal.com/2021/05/preventable-rendezvous-avoiding-a-mid-air-collision/ Some pull-quotes: " So, first lesson here: data shows that over half of mid-air collisions happen from behind, when a faster aircraft overtakes a slower one. This is true in the pattern and en route alike. So, always think ahead—even more so if you are flying a fast one." "Second lesson: high wing airplanes give you a nice view of the ground, but they can get you in trouble with traffic above. Keep that in mind." "Lesson three: ADS-B is an amazing tool, and we might get some improvement in the number of mid-airs with its introduction." "Lesson four: get a VFR flight following. It is not a perfect solution, and you are still expected to see and avoid, but it is definitely an extra layer." From The Comments: Chris says: May 25, 2021 at 1:03 pm Great points to consider! Thanks for sharing. Within a week of gaining the capability to display ADS-B traffic, it saved me and my family from a midair. We were in the home traffic pattern on downwind. There was another aircraft loitering a couple of thousand feet above the traffic pattern with unknown intentions (no radio calls were being made). The aircraft was above and behind us when I noticed its avatar on my iPad plummeting rapidly to pattern altitude. I made a steep right turn out of the pattern as the other aircraft leveled right where we my airplane would have been had I not taken evasive action. Without ADS-B traffic, we would have never known it was there because there was no possible physical contortion that would have allowed me to visually pick up that traffic from above and behind my Cherokee. I think of ADS-B traffic displays exactly like the mirrors on my car. I’m not going to stare at it constantly, but keeping it in my scan reduces the blind spots. Reply Enderson Rafaelsays: May 28, 2021 at 6:06 am .... ADS-B for the small aircraft will make a huge difference just like TCAS did for bigger airplanes. Once again, operating safely is paramount, and the whole situation may have been avoided if the other traffic was doing so ... And being able to see other traffic electronically, is certainly a great asset! Cheers! Reply --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Enderson Rafaelsays: May 28, 2021 at 5:59 am .... Starting from the transponder ON, as we have seen operating the 737 into uncontrolled fields… I wish the birds where the only non-squawk traffic in some of the airspaces we fly to. Cheers, my friend! Repl Earl Tuggle Sr.says: May 30, 2021 at 1:16 pm Of course you can, but why WOULD you operate a 737 into non-controlled fields? Reply Enderson Rafaelsays: May 30, 2021 at 4:21 pm Even bigger airplanes than a 737 eventually operate in uncontrolled fields. It is not that rare. Toowoomba, in Australia, gets regular flights from 747Fs, for example. Reply Edited May 30, 2021 by Garfly 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfly Posted May 31, 2021 Author Share Posted May 31, 2021 Between 03:00 and 04:00 in this 'Finer Points' tutorial, I see that an iPad scan is now an everyday aid to the Hail-Mary called the 'clearing' turn. That's in the US, of course, where ADSB is now close to universal, but still, it may be time for RAAus to revise its attitude to that newfangled fish-finder tech. (See red-text in original post) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 I wonder how good these aids are when there's about 5 in a circuit. What others do counts also. TCAS takes account of the other planes movements. I 'm for returning to some form of tower when traffic gets heavy. PLUS an up grade to radio performance and quality. Operators and equipment. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfly Posted June 1, 2021 Author Share Posted June 1, 2021 (edited) Yeah, you probably wouldn't want any kind of aural alert system in the circuit, it'd drive you mad (although it's conceivable that something workable could be invented) and yes, radio work ought to be a lot better. Anyway, I wouldn't have thought that use in the circuit was one of the strong points for ADSB tech but that comment by 'Chris' - a couple of posts up - as part of the 'Preventable Rendezvous' article, got me thinking about that. In any case, you regularly hear aircraft spending a lot of time and precious attention trying to self separate when, more often than not, it turns out, they weren't within cooee of each other. When we all carry some kind of conspicuity device (and, IMHO, government subsidy to GA/RA, as in the UK, would probably be the cheapest and safest way forward) it will only take a glance at the screen to, if nothing else, obviate false threats which can give you more time to be looking out, as best you can, for any real ones. Edited June 1, 2021 by Garfly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 Yes . The whole scene can go pearshaped with radio as well with people with verbal diahorea and stuck MIC buttons and wrong frequencies selected. How many pilots are actually given instruction on how best to look for traffic and what to do if there's some in the way including how to conduct an overshoot and safely rejoin the circuit. Descending onto a leg is hideously dangerous even with a highwing. . Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfly Posted June 20, 2021 Author Share Posted June 20, 2021 This is another sad story that could have been avoided with ADSB IN/OUT gear (even the low-cost variety). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walrus Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 Flew yesterday doing scenics for the neighbours. I had five potential conflicts during 70 minutes flying. Four resolved by radio, one by ADSB - IN. Only one of the five confirmed visually. ……and this is at a “quiet” country airstrip! The unalerted see and avoid, no radio crowd are just accidents waiting to happen because they don’t even know they have had a conflict. ‘’You need the lot! ADSB, radio and a good scan. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgwilson Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 3 point harnesses should be the minimum mandatory restraint in ALL aircraft. There are still plenty of old aircraft around with just lap belts which just hold your backside to the seat & allow your head to become a projectile against the panel. It is illegal to have lap belts in cars so why are they still allowed in aircraft? ADSB in/out may have alerted these pilots but it wasn't available at the time of this accident, then again this could have been overlooked as well if the pilots were busy on the radio & listening more than looking. Sometimes even audio alerts are overlooked. I saw a clip of an aircraft make a wheels up landing with the waring lights flashing & the horn screaming. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 The forces involved in an inflight collision are far in excess of what a seat belt will cover. Turbulence and a roll over on the ground are more in keeping with what they should cope with. Padding of some cockpit surfaces used to be common. I wouldn't rush into wishing mandatory things be fitted that are not even fitted to passenger jet seats. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfly Posted June 21, 2021 Author Share Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) I think KG was referring to the head impacts resulting from the Cherokee"s forced landing after the mid-air collision. (See 04:00 to 05:00 in the video). I wonder if anything like these inflatable helmets could find a place in recreational aviation. Perhaps in more risky ops, at least, and in cases where a full helmet is not practical or otherwise desirable. Headphone use is, of course, the biggest obstacle. Though purpose built alternatives are conceivable, I suppose. Edited June 21, 2021 by Garfly 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 Cyclists helmets are OK in small planes, Head phones can have a soft over the head strap, with the hard strap behind the neck. That way they can be worn with a helmet. spacesailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfly Posted June 21, 2021 Author Share Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, spacesailor said: Cyclists helmets are OK in small planes, Head phones can have a soft over the head strap, with the hard strap behind the neck. That way they can be worn with a helmet. spacesailor Do you have any pics of such headphones, Spacey? I guess the airbag-in-seatbelt is the existing solution. I wonder if they ever go off with the bumps and jolts of serious turbulence. Could be embarrassing on finals. (Or any other time ;- ) Edited June 21, 2021 by Garfly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfly Posted June 21, 2021 Author Share Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) Then there are these. Purpose built for our demo. LOL "Soft head protection helmet cleverly designed to be both practical and attractive." Let's face it; who among us would not look more attractive in one of these!!! https://dearjane.com.au/product/soft-head-protection-for-seniors/?gclid=CjwKCAjwzruGBhBAEiwAUqMR8ICE7VWHEs9mSiV0eGSzo4Gg0B2rNiuzhIy6AsItjDwsg481Kf8rJRoCCJAQAvD_BwE Hello Ladies!!!! Edited June 21, 2021 by Garfly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) That's very expensive ( $200 ) compared to a cyclists helmet. Soft over head strap !. Wide ribbon, your colour, ( white to match my hair colour, ) spacesailor Edited June 21, 2021 by spacesailor More added Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgwilson Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 4 hours ago, facthunter said: The forces involved in an inflight collision are far in excess of what a seat belt will cover. Turbulence and a roll over on the ground are more in keeping with what they should cope with. Padding of some cockpit surfaces used to be common. I wouldn't rush into wishing mandatory things be fitted that are not even fitted to passenger jet seats. Nev In a major crash you will die whatever seat belt you have, but a chest sash can stop your head smacking into a normally pretty hard panel in a survivable crash landing. The public would never accept 3 point harnesses in airliners. Far too restrictive. The safety briefings demonstrate the brace position which is the best they can do. When I said "ALL" I wasn't considering commercial aviation & was really thinking of private & recreational. I have 4 point harnesses & many advocate 5 point to prevent submarining. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 I bought a five point harness for my HummelBird. BUT The beaurecrats made my change it to a piece of light-weight rope, around the waist. ( trying to comply with Rules ). spacesailor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 The best seats in the house (up the front) often have 5 point harness, In a lot of planes you have trouble finding suitably strong and appropriately located seat belt attach points.. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APenNameAndThatA Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 I must say, RAAUS describing a pilot as being complacent and looking at his iPad is *really* rude. The pilot would be able to identify himself from the anecdote. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 That was my idea !, with five attach points arranged around the rear fuselarge, instead of three ( top, bottom & side ) it would have a better chance of holding together. Except for the weight factor. spacesailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfly Posted October 8, 2023 Author Share Posted October 8, 2023 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBob Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 Closing pattern very similar to that tragic helicopter midair at the Gold Coast.......( 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 You know you have a pillar there, so look around it. The object you eventually hit stays still in the field of view also. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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