Weak bolts

[Thruster88]

14 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

What did you drive. Doubles,. triples ,. Quads, C trains 

Last was 2006 FH16 @610hp two TOA tippers, conventional dolly road train, 11 axles. Beautiful quiet effortless truck with syncromesh gearbox (the equivalent of a nose wheel), retired in 2015. 

Edited October 1, 2022 by Thruster88

[BrendAn]

Just now, Thruster88 said:

Last was 2006 FH16 @610hp two TOA tippers, conventional dolly road train, 11 axles.

Nice truck.  Last one I drove was a Kenworth with 580 HP hand grenade (Cummins).  Tri Dolly's. Double roadtrain with a b double on the back. 

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, BrendAn said:

All these threads seem to get sidetracked but does it really matter.  

Has your enquiry been answered? That's important. If it has, then we can go waffling off on this side track without upsetting you.

[BrendAn]

2 hours ago, old man emu said:

Has your enquiry been answered? That's important. If it has, then we can go waffling off on this side track without upsetting you.

Yes it has and getting off the subject doesn't bother me at all. I think everyone in these groups have similar interests anyway and enjoy varied discussions. Plus it's usually me going off topic 😀

[turboplanner]

OK you two experts, what are your thoughts on Double Road trains on the narrow lane freeways of our cities, and distributing coupled into our industrial streets, given the converter dollies?

 

[old man emu]

27 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

OK you two experts, what are your thoughts on Double Road trains on the narrow lane freeways of our cities, and distributing coupled into our industrial streets, given the converter dollies?

 

I feel sorry for the poor drivers of those juggernauts who have to get them through tight roundabouts while dealing with the impatient "me first" motorists.

[BrendAn]

2 hours ago, turboplanner said:

OK you two experts, what are your thoughts on Double Road trains on the narrow lane freeways of our cities, and distributing coupled into our industrial streets, given the converter dollies?

 

For a start I am not an expert at anything. It's just experience.  Those doubles running around Melbourne are a great idea.  Less trucks on the road is always good. And with modern ebs and abs trailer brake systems they are very safe. When I see all the b doubles that run Mel to Syd every night I wonder why they don't run quads between distribution centres. It could be done with the right driver training and equipment. Maybe one day.. but good drivers are the hardest thing to get these days. 

[BrendAn]

1 hour ago, old man emu said:

I feel sorry for the poor drivers of those juggernauts who have to get them through tight roundabouts while dealing with the impatient "me first" motorists.

They operate on carefully planned routes. You won't see one at a tight suburban roundabout. 

[aro]

1 hour ago, BrendAn said:

They operate on carefully planned routes. You won't see one at a tight suburban roundabout. 

You'd like to think so. Unfortunately, if the carefully planned route is blocked e.g. by an accident they tend to take less carefully planned routes rather than waiting.

 

I've seen a B-double trying to negotiate a tight corner with a traffic island, railway bridge and roundabout, in a school zone at 8:30 am. I think he was actually stuck. I don't know how easy it is to reverse a B double through a 120 degree corner, or what you do with a B double when you can't go forwards and can't go backwards. I didn't hang around to find out, despite the potential entertainment.

 

I've also seen one cut through the centre of town, with 1 way streets, speed humps, pedestrian crossings and supermarket carpark traffic. That guy probably thought he was a genius for getting his truck through that area.

[old man emu]

19 minutes ago, aro said:

in a school zone at 8:30 am.

I lived on a street with a school zone. Didn't go out much. Hell hath no fury like a YAF driving in a school zone.

[BrendAn]

53 minutes ago, aro said:

You'd like to think so. Unfortunately, if the carefully planned route is blocked e.g. by an accident they tend to take less carefully planned routes rather than waiting.

 

I've seen a B-double trying to negotiate a tight corner with a traffic island, railway bridge and roundabout, in a school zone at 8:30 am. I think he was actually stuck. I don't know how easy it is to reverse a B double through a 120 degree corner, or what you do with a B double when you can't go forwards and can't go backwards. I didn't hang around to find out, despite the potential entertainment.

 

I've also seen one cut through the centre of town, with 1 way streets, speed humps, pedestrian crossings and supermarket carpark traffic. That guy probably thought he was a genius for getting his truck through that area.

What a load of rubbish. We are not talking about idiots breaking the rules. They are not to allowed to deviate off a gazetted route . How can I speak for people that break the rules. Give me a break. For every truck doing something wrong there will 100 cars breaking the law as well. 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Once, I watched in awe as a semi-driver backed into a roller-door in a narrow alley. He didn't have the room to get straight first, so he had to have the whole thing at a curve. I was awed by his skill.... how common is that as a driving feat?

[turboplanner]

50 minutes ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

Once, I watched in awe as a semi-driver backed into a roller-door in a narrow alley. He didn't have the room to get straight first, so he had to have the whole thing at a curve. I was awed by his skill.... how common is that as a driving feat?

Some drivers do that every day Bruce. One day I watched a B Double driver in one of the old narrow Richmond streets back his B Trailer into an old factory with about 150 mm clear each side. He was manipulating the A Trailer to get the correct curve on the B Trailer. A pleasure to watch.

[Bruce Tuncks]

OME, whats a YAF ?

Once I was at the magistrate's court and there were people getting fined for speeding in school zones...  they were mainly on their way      ( they said ) to a funeral and therefore understandably too distraught to care about school zones. This cut no ice with the grumpy old beak.

[turboplanner]

2 hours ago, BrendAn said:

What a load of rubbish. We are not talking about idiots breaking the rules. They are not to allowed to deviate off a gazetted route . How can I speak for people that break the rules. Give me a break. For every truck doing something wrong there will 100 cars breaking the law as well. 

That might be so in Gippsland. Under Vicroads you had the best Compliance Officers in Australia, but not in Melbourne where B Doubles don't usually de-couple on the prescribed route but go off and deliver on non prescribed routes and Council streets in Industrial Zones. Shouldn't happen, but it does, and doesn't seem to be a safety issue, fatigue still being the No 1 problem. The Double Road Trains I mentioned operate all over Australia now and were named "A Doubles" so they didn't scare the people. They are making a nuisance of themselves; Prime Movers are not Road Train Spec, gear-bound top speed to minimise dolly oscillation, so sitting on 103 on the freeways with the B Trailer swaying into the next lane, and also delivering to the destination without de-coupling. I blocked the road for one where the driver was trying to reverse off a corner into the wide front gate of a factory - had 8 attempts before he got the unit inside, took 15 to 20 minutes.

[BrendAn]

38 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

That might be so in Gippsland. Under Vicroads you had the best Compliance Officers in Australia, but not in Melbourne where B Doubles don't usually de-couple on the prescribed route but go off and deliver on non prescribed routes and Council streets in Industrial Zones. Shouldn't happen, but it does, and doesn't seem to be a safety issue, fatigue still being the No 1 problem. The Double Road Trains I mentioned operate all over Australia now and were named "A Doubles" so they didn't scare the people. They are making a nuisance of themselves; Prime Movers are not Road Train Spec, gear-bound top speed to minimise dolly oscillation, so sitting on 103 on the freeways with the B Trailer swaying into the next lane, and also delivering to the destination without de-coupling. I blocked the road for one where the driver was trying to reverse off a corner into the wide front gate of a factory - had 8 attempts before he got the unit inside, took 15 to 20 minutes.

In Gippsland you reckon. My trucks are all based Melbourne.  I have driven semis . B doubles and rigids all over Melbourne for years.  What you call a doubles are pocket roadtrains . They have been in w.a since the 80s.  There is no way those prime movers are not specced for the job in Melbourne. They work under the PBS scheme which I think would be pretty stringent.  If the dog trailer is swaying it's not the rig,it's the clown driving while on his mobile not paying attention. I see that every day.

[BrendAn]

In my personal opinion,I think it's just too easy to get licences for cars and trucks. People don't even know how to change a wheel any more.i don't think I would even pass a driving test without a course to refresh all the rules.  I got my roadtrain licence over 30 years ago yet I have never been checked or tested for competency since.

[turboplanner]

1 hour ago, BrendAn said:

In my personal opinion,I think it's just too easy to get licences for cars and trucks. People don't even know how to change a wheel any more.i don't think I would even pass a driving test without a course to refresh all the rules.  I got my roadtrain licence over 30 years ago yet I have never been checked or tested for competency since.

There's a bit of fairness in the system; if you're driving every day the judgement standard is way above the average driver, and the annual statistics for trucks show that, so no testing.

If your truck is well maintained the chances of having a roadworthy triggered injury/fatal accident are tiny, and the annual statistics, so roadworthy only, exept if any of your trucks were in or around a fatal accident, then its a nightmare; truck ordered off road for 10 mm crack in front guard, every truck subject to on site inspection.

Fatigue is the one getting out of control. We had truck driver fatalities down to 47 at one point before 2010 with about 43 of those fatigue; now we're up over 100.

[turboplanner]

2 hours ago, BrendAn said:

 What you call a doubles are pocket roadtrains . They have been in w.a since the 80s. 
 

The current WA Pocket Road Train spec is Tri Tri Tri, 27.5 metres OAL.

What became the A Double I was talking about started in Queensland with Quad Dogs which Queensland Transport Toowoomba allowed as Double Road Trains by fitting a grain chute to get the OAL, picking up the extra axle group load. I was trying to design a Prime Mover to suit them and went looking for the specifications; there was only a pamphlet. Eventually I caught up with the QT Engineer who referred me to the pamphlet. When I said "So the Prime Mover doesn't have to have gear binding, spray guards, etc." there was a pause, and he said "no you'd have to have that." There was a paise during which we both knew what we were saying, and I said "Could you make me up a specification I can publish" and he said "No, I couldn't do that" so I said "I'll write the specification if you approve it"and he said "I'll look at it", so I wrote it and we had no trouble getting the trucks registered. I think through that I inadvertently laid the foundation for the A Double, but the application was to be rural operations, primarily grain. Where the Melbourne A Double spec is today because Tris came in and now we've started quad quad quad, but out of interest I might see if I can track where it is and if any PBS is involved. It wasn't initially.

 

2 hours ago, BrendAn said:

There is no way those prime movers are not specced for the job in Melbourne.

When I follow them they're doing 103 on the Monash Freeway.

2 hours ago, BrendAn said:

If the dog trailer is swaying it's not the rig,it's the clown driving while on his mobile not paying attention. I see that every day.

A Doubles have grown away from the dog trailer type and are longer, but the weak spot is the converter dolly which can jump sideways in a curve when it hits a pothole in input more steering faster than a driver would then whip back as the drawbar straigntens. It's never been a problem in the back country where road trains have operated for decades, but I've followed a few with the converter dolly oscillating on the Monash, and they get over the line as they oscillate, so a weaving path.

[old man emu]

5 hours ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

OME, whats a YAF ?

YAF = Young Aggressive Female

The type of female who drives like a maniac and then abuses you, calling you a male chauvinist pig. 

[turboplanner]

6 minutes ago, old man emu said:

YAF = Young Aggressive Female

The type of female who drives like a maniac and then abuses you, calling you a male chauvinist pig. 

Three of us were delivering new Atkinson Prime Movers up the Hume Highway near Albury one day, and the CB opened up with the rear guy telling us to look and described the BMW coming past fast and the attributes of the young blonde with the short skirt driving, the number 2 added his bit and i made a comment, then we heard "Thanks boys!"

[turboplanner]

I've often said we should be thankful for CASA provided we are doing the right thing.

 

The National Heavy Vehicle Regulator's  (NHVR) Prosecutors are giving talks around Victoria at the moment, and this was one of the gems to come out.

 

CASA on steoids!

 

"From the result you will see the focus on #education and #safety.

4 August 2022
Dandenong Magistrates Court

Defendant type: Company - operator

On 17 June 2020 a company was observed travelling in a prime mover compromising of one, two tyred steer axle, together with one, eight tyred dual-drive tandem axle group. It was towing a two-axle sixteen tyred low loader dolly, which was connected to a five-axle forty tyred low loader. The heavy vehicle was loaded with a tadano crane.

The company allowed the vehicle to travel on a non-approved route as per the Multi-State Class 1 Load Carrying Vehicle Mass Exemption Notice 2020 (No. 1) Schedule 4. A permit was produced but this permit was not valid for the trip.

The company permitted a driver to drive the heavy vehicle without ensuring its components and load, complied with the applicable loading and mass requirements applying to the vehicle.

The statutory permitted mass was 43,000kg. The alleged mass was 102,400kg. This is 238% of the prescribed mass limits (severe risk breach). The load, the tadano crane weighed 57,900kg. The way it was loaded did not comply with the performance standards. This resulted in a substantial risk breach.

It did not comply with the Load Restraint Guide, specifically:

The load had rubber tyres which was sitting on smooth unpainted steel deck providing a medium friction coefficient;

There were a total of eight 10mm chains crossed with two chains on each of the number 1,2,4 and 5 axles of the crane;

The chains were in a single string format, tensioned by one ratchet dog per chain;

It was observed that one of the open winged hooks of the ratchet dogs was hooked directly onto the load deck of the trailer with the other end being connected to the chain.
The company entered a plea of guilty and had two relevant prior court matters.

Section/Act

C1 – s. 96(1)(c) (severe risk breach)
C2 – s. 111(1)(b) (substantial risk breach)
Fine

Aggregate fine: $8,000

Other Orders:

Conviction recorded

Supervisory Intervention Order:

Placed on a 6 month Supervisory Intervention Order to complete the following conditions:

Within one (1) month of this Order being made, to engage a training provider to provide training to all senior management and persons responsible for the operations of transport activities within the company.

Prior to undertaking any training, the details of the training provider and proposed training content are to be supplied to the NHVR;

The training must include training in respect of:
Compliance with Mass requirements
Compliance with Loading requirements
Oversize Overmass (OSOM) vehicles and the requirements;
Network maps for heavy vehicles as outlined in the VicRoads website;

Within six (6) months of this Order being made, to provide to the NHVR the names and training records of all persons who complete the training"

 

[BrendAn]

2 hours ago, turboplanner said:

The current WA Pocket Road Train spec is Tri Tri Tri, 27.5 metres OAL.

What became the A Double I was talking about started in Queensland with Quad Dogs which Queensland Transport Toowoomba allowed as Double Road Trains by fitting a grain chute to get the OAL, picking up the extra axle group load. I was trying to design a Prime Mover to suit them and went looking for the specifications; there was only a pamphlet. Eventually I caught up with the QT Engineer who referred me to the pamphlet. When I said "So the Prime Mover doesn't have to have gear binding, spray guards, etc." there was a pause, and he said "no you'd have to have that." There was a paise during which we both knew what we were saying, and I said "Could you make me up a specification I can publish" and he said "No, I couldn't do that" so I said "I'll write the specification if you approve it"and he said "I'll look at it", so I wrote it and we had no trouble getting the trucks registered. I think through that I inadvertently laid the foundation for the A Double, but the application was to be rural operations, primarily grain. Where the Melbourne A Double spec is today because Tris came in and now we've started quad quad quad, but out of interest I might see if I can track where it is and if any PBS is involved. It wasn't initially.

 

When I follow them they're doing 103 on the Monash Freeway.

A Doubles have grown away from the dog trailer type and are longer, but the weak spot is the converter dolly which can jump sideways in a curve when it hits a pothole in input more steering faster than a driver would then whip back as the drawbar straigntens. It's never been a problem in the back country where road trains have operated for decades, but I've followed a few with the converter dolly oscillating on the Monash, and they get over the line as they oscillate, so a weaving path.

I pass clean away road trains every day on the Monash and am impressed out how straight they tow with such a short draw bar. By dog trailer I am referring to full length trailers. Taking  3 Atkinson's up the hume would have been a while back. Never see them any more. They were a good truck too.

[BrendAn]

47 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

I've often said we should be thankful for CASA provided we are doing the right thing.

 

The National Heavy Vehicle Regulator's  (NHVR) Prosecutors are giving talks around Victoria at the moment, and this was one of the gems to come out.

 

CASA on steoids!

 

"From the result you will see the focus on #education and #safety.

4 August 2022
Dandenong Magistrates Court

Defendant type: Company - operator

On 17 June 2020 a company was observed travelling in a prime mover compromising of one, two tyred steer axle, together with one, eight tyred dual-drive tandem axle group. It was towing a two-axle sixteen tyred low loader dolly, which was connected to a five-axle forty tyred low loader. The heavy vehicle was loaded with a tadano crane.

The company allowed the vehicle to travel on a non-approved route as per the Multi-State Class 1 Load Carrying Vehicle Mass Exemption Notice 2020 (No. 1) Schedule 4. A permit was produced but this permit was not valid for the trip.

The company permitted a driver to drive the heavy vehicle without ensuring its components and load, complied with the applicable loading and mass requirements applying to the vehicle.

The statutory permitted mass was 43,000kg. The alleged mass was 102,400kg. This is 238% of the prescribed mass limits (severe risk breach). The load, the tadano crane weighed 57,900kg. The way it was loaded did not comply with the performance standards. This resulted in a substantial risk breach.

It did not comply with the Load Restraint Guide, specifically:

The load had rubber tyres which was sitting on smooth unpainted steel deck providing a medium friction coefficient;

There were a total of eight 10mm chains crossed with two chains on each of the number 1,2,4 and 5 axles of the crane;

The chains were in a single string format, tensioned by one ratchet dog per chain;

It was observed that one of the open winged hooks of the ratchet dogs was hooked directly onto the load deck of the trailer with the other end being connected to the chain.
The company entered a plea of guilty and had two relevant prior court matters.

Section/Act

C1 – s. 96(1)(c) (severe risk breach)
C2 – s. 111(1)(b) (substantial risk breach)
Fine

Aggregate fine: $8,000

Other Orders:

Conviction recorded

Supervisory Intervention Order:

Placed on a 6 month Supervisory Intervention Order to complete the following conditions:

Within one (1) month of this Order being made, to engage a training provider to provide training to all senior management and persons responsible for the operations of transport activities within the company.

Prior to undertaking any training, the details of the training provider and proposed training content are to be supplied to the NHVR;

The training must include training in respect of:
Compliance with Mass requirements
Compliance with Loading requirements
Oversize Overmass (OSOM) vehicles and the requirements;
Network maps for heavy vehicles as outlined in the VicRoads website;

Within six (6) months of this Order being made, to provide to the NHVR the names and training records of all persons who complete the training"

 

Nothing like being inconspicuous. They should have just rung the heavys and told them where they were.  How did they think they would get away with that.  None of my blokes ever get harassed because we obey the rules .

[BrendAn]

Did you work for international turbo