PA-28 crash near Bankstown 19/11/2022

[facthunter]

I think that's accepted and not an unusual situation for the Instructor to get out and send you solo. That's one of the reasons I'd consider fuel starvation "unusual". Nev

[turboplanner]

24 minutes ago, facthunter said:

THAT is nearly always a consideration including incorrect selection . A few people have been known to run out of fuel while doing circuits, but if he had done only one solo, then How?  Nev

The 12 circuits before the student went solo?

[facthunter]

I'm sure that the fuel used would not exhaust a normal load which for many training aircraft is FULL tanks and the Instructor should be good enough to keep an eye on the fuel usage. FUEL is a prime item on the pre take off check list on all planes.(Quantity and selection). Nev

[Carbon Canary]

If you believe Flightradar, there was a previous 50min flight that morning.  Maybe the A/C started with half tanks or less, and managed to run one dry - if it was fuel exhaustion at all.   This was an ab-initio student still busy managing the aircraft and fuel was probably not top of mind.  But it should have been top of mind for an instructor.  Then again, maybe he blew a piston or something completely different - we are speculating here.  If ATSB actually decides to investigate, we may eventually find out.........or I'll ask just around a few people.

[onetrack]

The majority of fuel exhaustion events are caused by incorrect tank valve switching or faulty valves.

[turboplanner]

47 minutes ago, onetrack said:

The majority of fuel exhaustion events are caused by incorrect tank valve switching or faulty valves.

The Cherokee selector just rotates; it's only an outside thought. At the busy airports it not unusual for the student to be asked to organise a fuel tanker if he/she finds it down on preflight. Still could be anything.

[onetrack]

A business associate had a forced landing on the Coolgardie-Kalgoorlie highway in his Cherokee about 1986, thanks to a fuel selector valve "fault".

He claimed it was a faulty valve, but I wasn't inclined to believe him, he played fast and loose with the truth on many an occasion. I personally believe he failed to select the tank properly.

 

https://generalaviationnews.com/2015/03/16/misplaced-fuel-selector-valve-brings-down-piper/

[facthunter]

At one time the Piper and Cessna had different Knobs. Either the "tail" or a little pointer was aligned with the selected On OFF L R and a few got caught, but it usually happened at Take off. KNOW your fuel system like your life depended on it, because it does. Nev

[old man emu]

I spoke to an instructor at Bankstown today. He had seen teh flight record and was of the opinion that the many earlier circuits were typical of an instructor making sure that the student was up the the standard to go solo. The instructor also told me that it was really windy on the day, so if you follow the track traces, you can see that he was handling the wind quite well. 

 

The student did well. Haven't we talked about the dangers of stalling when making turns in teh circuit at low speed and going from a mostly tailwind to a crosswind when turning Base? What would have happened if he made that second turn into the direction of a normal Final for the active runway?

 

He didn't have much distance to use to get the plane onto the cleared space. Ther are no pictures of the point of touch down, but seeing that the aircraft continued its landing roll, he must not have slammed it on. The marks you can see across the unsealed racing track are symptomatic of locked whels sliding on a low friction surface. 

 

Poor bastard. I reckon he did OK.

[facthunter]

Anyhow we still have to know why the Prop stopped.  Nev