'Tennessee fly girl' fatal Beechcraft 7 dec

[danny_galaga]

I didn't notice it mentioned here, so thought I'd post.  When you look at this vid, and the follow up he did later, one of the big takeaways for me is that a series of instructors seem to have failed. I believe she had 400 hours flying, which is way more than me, but I feel I am more proficient. Tragic that her father died with her.

 

Because she was doing it for YouTube, she had a number of cameras on board, so a good chance at least one will be recoverable (only the SD card needs to still function). That's going to be both informative and harrowing for the investigators.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[facthunter]

I was doing charter in a Debonair at about 350 hours total time. It's just another aeroplane if you are properly endorsed on it. Flaps not as good as Cessna and a bit hotter speed wise and cabin wise. Well built and strong..  Nev 

[rgmwa]

I wonder why she apparently still had so much trouble operating the autopilot after owning the plane for a year. You would think that should have been long enough to figure it out between the manual and her instructors. 

[pmccarthy]

Some people just can't get their heads around technology, or how things work. They might be smart in other ways.

[danny_galaga]

 

Yeah fact Hunter, that's what surprises me. When could you get your commercial licence? 150 hours or something?  I think maybe if she had just pursued that instead to better herself, this may not have happened. Presumably a bit less rubber stamping for CPL. I know two guys who got CPL just to better their flying skills- no intention of flying for a living.

 

To her credit, you see in one of her videos that she fires one of her instructors because he was basically just taking over all the time, meaning she wasn't really learning anything. 

 

Because she had so many videos up, Juan showed she seemed out of her depth with the Beechcraft.  She was maybe overconfident.

 

I've always been the reverse, big lack of confidence. Somewhere between the two of us is the ideal.

[facthunter]

165 hours minimum. With a bit of extra playing around about 220 Hours was more normal. I went straight on and did the Instructor Rating as the scholarship which I got at about 100 hrs covered both and  also had a clause that I  would "offer myself" to the Aviation Industry at the completion of my training.

   The instructor normally should not take over very often. Something's wrong there. Lack of technical Knowledge?? She may have been a difficult student. I don't want to speculate really.. You need enough self confidence to do what you are capable of or you handicap yourself but you must  realise why what you are taught has to be understood, not just rely on Rote learning..   Nev

[poteroo]

I dislike autopilots, and that places me in the dinosaur category.  If I have to learn a new A/P, I try not to read the whole POH and confuse myself : I take it in small bites, eg, set power and manually trim to keep altitude and heading constant. Only then, do I dare turn on one or other function. Perhaps ALT HOLD first, and see whether A/P will hold ALT with small power changes. Then, when I'm happy with that, I'll try HDG, and check whether it will actually hold the manually set HDG, then check it's adjustment.  I never touch the VS setting/adjustment until I'm at altitude, and have checked the ON/OFF switch a few times, just in case the VS adjustment develops a mind of it's own. 

 

In the case of this US accident  -  what more can be said?  At 400TT the pilot should have had a good working grip on every system and switch in that Debonair.  I fear that these types of pilot induced incidents are going to push our regulators into requiring either a signoff in the pilots log for each system in an aircraft, or, require the system to be disabled unless the pilot has demonstrated competency in operating it.  Seems that pilots are becoming their  ' ówn worst enemy ' by not learning each and every system in the aircraft they fly or hire.

[facthunter]

It's good practice to disconnect the A/P and check where the pitch trim is pretty often. That way you don't have one fighting the other.  IF anything feels wrong, hand fly it till conditions are more settled and when you're happy, re-engage. If you have ALT engaged a change of power or icing may make if dangerous. IF you have to attend to something  and have the height available to allow a bit of a change, Airspeed is perhaps a better reference  for extra safety.  You still have to MONITOR the thing if you are doing the job properly.  Nev

[rgmwa]

I find the AP is very useful on long trip but seldom use it otherwise. Mine requires me to adjust the trim at times in response to an audio message "trim up/down", much the same as the visual display in the Debonaire. It generally works very well unless there is a fair bit of turbulence in which case I don't use it. Even in calm conditions I monitor it pretty closely. 

[facthunter]

 I know  one person who used the AP to do a 180 and get out of cloud. The AP doesn't know when it's in cloud. . On long trips they are useful and todays pilots  in RPT use them extensively. In any stuff i'd be likely to fly I would not have a real use for one. IF you like flying why get a thing to do it for you?  Nev

[kgwilson]

It surprises me how many recreational pilots get APs installed. I built my aircraft to fly it not be a passenger.

[facthunter]

They can actually make your plane less safe, both from the installation and how you operate them.  Nev

[sfGnome]

I’ve always dreamed of having an autopilot, just for alt and heading hold on the long legs (or to give my beloved some time and help if I had a medical incident), but I briefly flew with one for the first time recently on a day where there was a just bit of bounce in the air and the AP fought it like crazy. 😵‍💫 Really uncomfortable. Maybe ok on a totally smooth day, but how often do we get one of those? 🤷🏼‍♂️

[facthunter]

You don't get a warning "Big Bump Coming" either, Unless it's  a DUST DEVIL. . Most AP's won't handle those conditions well.   Nev

[rgmwa]

It might seem like overkill for a recreational aircraft, but I have no regrets about installing one. I normally hand fly my plane, but there are times when it's very useful to be able to engage the AP and reduce your workload and fatigue on a long leg. Also as Nev says, it could potentially save your life if you are unlucky or careless enough to get into IMC. It can be uncomfortable in turbulence because it's trying to do its job and hold altitude which can be hard on both the plane and the pilot, so hand flying is a much better option in those conditions. But it's very useful provided you use it where and when appropriate and understand how it works and its limitations. 

Edited December 29, 2023 by rgmwa

[turboplanner]

4 minutes ago, rgmwa said:

It might seem like overkill for a recreational aircraft, but I have no regrets about installing one. I normally hand fly my plane, but there are times when it's very useful to be able to engage the AP and reduce your workload and fatigue on a long leg. Also as Nev says, it could potentially save your life if you are unlucky or careless enough to get into IMC. It can be uncomfortable in turbulence because it's trying to do its job and hold altitude which can be hard on both the plane and the pilot, so hand flying is a much better option in those conditions. But it's very useful provided you use it where and when appropriate and understand how it works and its limitations. 

What's your opinion of the Flyinggirl case? is autopilot so difficult to understand? or do you need to be using it constantly to remain current on it?

[rgmwa]

34 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

What's your opinion of the Flyinggirl case? is autopilot so difficult to understand? or do you need to be using it constantly to remain current on it?

Well, I don't think my opinion is worth a lot and I have only seen the same videos that most of you have.  My overall impression is that she wasn't a very confident pilot and not as well trained or competent as you might have expected after 400 hours, which I think is the main reason the accident happened. The AP is not hard to understand as a basic tool, which is the way I use it although it is capable of much more.  A 180 degree turn is a button push and it will fly any course or profile you want, even rounding corners to come onto a new heading without overshooting, but power and trim management is still up to you. You would be well advised to practice regularly if you used all its capabilities, but I'm more of a stick and rudder pilot and don't need to do VNAV or fully coupled approaches to land the plane. For me, the most important AP control is the disengage button.

Edited December 29, 2023 by rgmwa

[facthunter]

Nearly ALL autopilot's are different, so know the one you are using. How do the servo's work  what do they act on and what are they referencing for information (Flight data). Does it have sensitivity adjustment etc?  Anytime you disengage be ready for some control loads . (just in case). Nev

[Area-51]

On 28/12/2023 at 5:11 PM, facthunter said:

It's good practice to disconnect the A/P and check where the pitch trim is pretty often. That way you don't have one fighting the other.  IF anything feels wrong, hand fly it till conditions are more settled and when you're happy, re-engage. If you have ALT engaged a change of power or icing may make if dangerous. IF you have to attend to something  and have the height available to allow a bit of a change, Airspeed is perhaps a better reference  for extra safety.  You still have to MONITOR the thing if you are doing the job properly.  Nev

Would not the trim require adjusting as fuel load reduction alters CG? What else other than airspeed changes and icing would require trim be adjusted? If the pilot knew the aircraft really well they would know when trim adjustments are required?

[danny_galaga]

1 hour ago, Area-51 said:

 If the pilot knew the aircraft really well 

 

[facthunter]

Thing's don't always act as is predicted and I can't cover everything in a few lines. "It is good practice" is appropriate when something else has been flying the plane for a while.. Near instant disconnection of the Autopilot should be an instinctive action. Nev

[CT9000]

Although I don't use my auto pilot a lot it can be very helpful at times. Eg. when looking up details in ERSA, or when on a clearance to maintain alt or track etc. whilst looking for traffic or a landmark. The sensitivity for turb. is adjustable.