Installing the little VG pieces

[BC0979]

Thanks to all of you I am almost there....😁

After I get my Savannah S assembled at the field, I will install the little plastic VG pieces. I didn't want to transport the wing with them installed to prevent possible damage.

 

So the question is, what do I use to install these little plastic VG pieces? Is there a clear glue the you recommend?

 

 

[skippydiesel]

Never used VG's however do "stick" things on the outside of my aircraft eg trim tab on the rudder. I use good quality double sided tape. My favorit is by 3M. Its amazing stuff . 

 

 

[IBob]

I used superglue (onto 2 pot painted wing).
And it's worth getting the superglue bottle with the little brush in the cap....like nail varnish. It's  much easier to apply the right amount neatly with the brush than straight from the nozzle.

[facthunter]

2 pack Araldite?   Nev

[IBob]

P 35 of the wing assembly section says to use 'ciano acrylic' glue, which is better known as cyanoacrylate or superglue.

(It's mostly all in the manual.........somewhere.)

[skippydiesel]

Just speculating: Regular Super Glue & Araldite tend to harden & go off over time. Care needs to be taken with preparing the surface to be glued to, least only temporary adhesion take place.

 

Aside from removing all traces of grease/silicon (polish residue) double sided tape will stick remarkably well to a painted/smooth surface (no roughing required). It comes in diffrent thickness & width. The one I use the most is about 2mm thick, which gives the item (VG?) the ability to absorb a little movement  (not totally rigid) if knocked/rubbed /etc which will happen even if it's only washing the bugs off.

[facthunter]

Try it first . I've had troubles with superglue and I know araldite works on model aircraft "dural "engine mounts with vibration and model fuel everywhere.

 Posted while you were, skip.   That double sided strip the thickness may bother me It's the upright bit of the Vortex generator. that does the work .Nev

Edited February 11 by facthunter
more content.

[IBob]

I'd just say stick to the recipe (kit manufacturer's recommendation).
It's quick and easy, none of mine have fallen off and I'm not aware of any other builders losing them.

 

JG supplies precut 3M doublesided tape with his VG kits, which is excellent, but the Savannah wing has locating holes that match twin locating pegs on the VGs provided, and to tape them you would be somehow cutting round the pegs, also standing the VG off the surface.

[Marty_d]

I must get on to JG at some point for elevator VGs.  Apparently the 701 is much nicer at low speeds with them on.

[facthunter]

On the bottom side aren't they?  Why does that machine require so much rear downforce?. It's all load the wings have to carry ultimately.  Nev

[IBob]

37 minutes ago, Marty_d said:

I must get on to JG at some point for elevator VGs.  Apparently the 701 is much nicer at low speeds with them on.

JGs VGs are a really nice and well presented product, Marty. They come with precut double sided pads that make installation a breeze.
(And no, nobody's paying me to say this!)

[IBob]

32 minutes ago, facthunter said:

On the bottom side aren't they?  Why does that machine require so much rear downforce?. It's all load the wings have to carry ultimately.  Nev

The 701 has a different rear stab/tail setup than the Savannah, so I can't speak for the former, Nev.
I can say that with the later Savannah S, you run out of elevator authority on landing sooner than with the earlier VG. And on takeoff you can get the nosewheel off earlier/slower with the VG than the S.

What seems to be going on is that the C of G, while well within limits, is also well forward, and particularly when lightly loaded.
I tend to fly light, I added 10Kg ballast to the baggage area a while ago, and it is a quite different and much easier  aircraft to land that way. I've been thinking since of moving the battery back instead, but am nowhere near getting round to it yet....

[IBob]

It's interesting to note that ICP have come out with an 18L receiver tank. The standard kit tank has been 6L. This sits under the baggage area, and while it was probably introduced to increase fuel capacity, it would also move the C of G back by almost the same amount as my 10Kg of ballast.

[facthunter]

Useable fuel at some stage won't be there. The best thing is to move something that is already there rearwards. but stay within the Manufacturers Permitted C of G range.

[facthunter]

More  rearward C of G will give better economy but affects things like stalling and spinning.. You can actually stall the horizontal stabiliser and that is usually total loss of control. when that happens.    Nev

[onetrack]

I use Plastic Fusion, they claim to be the original super glue. This stuff is made in the U.S., and is a two-pack epoxy, and it has high strength and is extremely durable.

 

https://www.gluesaustralia.com.au/the-original-super-glue-10-minute-fast-setting-pla

 

However Plastic Fusion won't glue Polypropylene or Polyurethane or ABS resins, the "hard to glue" plastics. For PP, PU and ABS, I use JB Weld "Plastic Bonder".

This stuff is also a 2-pack epoxy, and it's the greatest adhesive I've come across for these difficult-to-bond materials.

 

https://www.jbweld.com/product/j-b-plastic-bonder-syringe

[Neil_S]

Hi all,

 

Having started replacing broken VGs (about 8 so far) on my Savannah after about 8 years I would be wary of using superglue as it implies permanence. Mostly the vertical part has got brittle and snapped, leaving the base.  Getting the old ones off without removing all the underlying paint is the challenge. I have found that careful use of sidecutters and/or Stanley blade works quite well, and if a lug is left in the hole then I just push it through. I then put some clear, neutral-cure silicon on the bottom of the new VG and insert the lugs into the two holes. Ones I have replaced using this method have been fine for a year or more now. 

 

HTH

Neil

[facthunter]

IF they are only plastic they certainly wouldn't last long in sunshine.  They probably buzz in the airflow. I thought they'd be sheet metal. They are used in  the centre engine intake "S" duct in the B 727. When few disappear the  engine tends to stall when the nose is raised on take off or when first opening the throttle on #2. THAT will light up the Paddock at night time as the flames shoot out of the front of the engine with a mighty thump noise, that would get the Town Dogs Barking. Nev

[facthunter]

It's NOT funny though, as the engine is often damaged and the PAX would get a big fright.   It's just an illustration of what VG's can do with boundary Layer control.  Nev

[BC0979]

Great input Guys!

I have bare aluminum (no paint) under the VGs.

I did see that the StolSpeed website offers double sided tape but as stated earlier, not the right size for ICP VGs.

I did not see that the "manual" recommended super glue. 

If  I use super glue, I could remove the VG with a heat gun if and when a replacement is required.

[facthunter]

The trouble I found with Supa glue was holding it in place till it would hold itself.   Nev

[BC0979]

Savannah S vg's have alignment nubs that fit into the pre drilled holes at the leading edge so holding them in place for 10 seconds isn't very difficult 

[Osteri]

ICP:s VG pieces

[kiteman]

Have you considered Sikaflex polyurethane adhesives. eg  252. Allows some flex, sticks well to almost any thing, comes in either black or white and will permit removal of the VG's later. Widely used in refrigerated trailer body and caravan construction- aluminium and composite. 

[Centreline]

I used double sided tape from Stolspeed. Made a template to cut into the correct size strips and punch the holes for the pins at the correct spacing for the VG’s in the Savannah kit.

Little fiddly to put the pieces on but been on there for 10 years with no problems. Stick well and easy to change if necessary with no damage to the paint.