Guest Kevin the Penniless Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I started flying in 1982 and have about 200hrs on Tomahawks, Warriors and Tobagos. Stopped flying 10 years ago, too expensive. Started again on the Jabiru J160 Dec 08 with the intention of buying one if I liked it. Trouble is, I think I've lost the plot!!! After 4 hours (6 sessions) I'm still struggling to maintain the centre line during the take-off roll, not climbing at 70kts (seem to cling to 80kts) and procedures like radio calls are pathetic. My instructor, I think, is too kind to say "Kevin, take up fishing". Am I being too hard on myself or should I consider the fishing? Anyone else finding similar problems? By the way, I haven't yet done any flying in crap weather, so I can't blame that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Kevin, why don't you try another aircraft type before giving up............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kevin the Penniless Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Well that would be nice but there simply aren't a lot to choose from. I won't be going back to GA flying at over $200 an hour (and rip-off fees at Parafield). Plus, if I do get back into it, I'd be buying a plane so I don't have to compete for flying time. A Jab is (just) within my means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 fishing? 4 hours isn't much. These things are a little slippery. You either take to them easy, or they are a whole new ball game. Give yourself time. You are most likely expecting too much of yourself. Nev.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gofastclint Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Sugar & caffeine! Eat a ligh breakfast of just 3 basic fruits. Like a banana apple and a mango with nothing else at all 1 hours befor flying, then 20 to 30 min befor have a red bull. Don't have a coffee, trust me, it will keep you sharp for 1 hour till it wears off, increasing blood flow to the brain will not only help you function better, it will re open old instincts and help you learn better. Try it, it works for me. I had a severe head traumer with swelling to the brain and an inch deep puncture wound to my skull and a broken neck. I didn't even know my name ems a week. My left hand is still half papalised but if i do this diet trick it gives me the best chance of being sharp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brett Campany Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Give it some time Kev, I hadn't flown in 15 years and I ran the Jab 230 off the runway on take off and nearly collected a few lights and a fence. Try other aircraft, I was hooked on the Jab until I flew one, now I'm loving the Sportcruiser because it's so user friendly. Be patient mate, it'll all come back! If you ever come over to the West mate, give me a yell and you can take me flying! Nah, just kidding, will get you in the air and just have some fun mate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gofastclint Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Give it some time Kev, I hadn't flown in 15 years and I ran the Jab 230 off the runway on take off and nearly collected a few lights and a fence.Try other aircraft, I was hooked on the Jab until I flew one, now I'm loving the Sportcruiser because it's so user friendly. Be patient mate, it'll all come back! If you ever come over to the West mate, give me a yell and you can take me flying! Nah, just kidding, will get you in the air and just have some fun mate! Brett is right, I have seen 3 older chaps in the past month trying to learn in a Jabiru, 2 were used to flying Cessna's and the other guy flew a trike. the trike guy flew twice a week and picked it up quick as he is used to a steep landing, but the 2 gentlemen who were used to Cessna's really struggles in the Jabiru. Like Brett said try flying a Sportcruiser or something like that. Not naming any names we will call him "Qantas Captain Too Proud" QCTP for short, anyway QCTP bought himself a Jabiru and being a Qantas pilot everyone would assume the guy could fly, Jabiru #1 bought brand new from the factory crashes on take off, not to worry QCTP is rich, so he buys Jabiru #2 and crashes it on takeoff too. both aircraft were factory built by Jabiru and both had all the required hours to prove they were airworthy. Just goes to show 3 things, never be too proud, never fly with QCTP and Jabiru's can be tricky for beople who are used to heavy docile aircraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kevin the Penniless Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Well I haven't managed to run the Jab off the runway, yet. Like I said in my reply to Maj Millard, there aren't that many planes to pick and choose from. Plus, I'd rather get time up in something I can buy because hire-n-fly is a pain in the exhaust pipe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelorus32 Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 G'day Kev, there was about 28 years between drinks for me and I just treated it all like ab-initio. Give yourself some time. As for Jabs - well I'm banned from talking about them on this forum...but there are lots of good a/c out there and you can afford things other than a Jab if you can afford a Jab. Regards Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brett Campany Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Well I haven't managed to run the Jab off the runway, yet. Like I said in my reply to Maj Millard, there aren't that many planes to pick and choose from. Plus, I'd rather get time up in something I can buy because hire-n-fly is a pain in the exhaust pipe. Very good point, really check out what you're thinking of buying but have confidence in yourself because you've flown before and you know in yourself that you can still do it, it's just doing the time in the cockpit again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLA82 Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Sugar & caffeine! Eat a ligh breakfast of just 3 basic fruits. Like a banana apple and a mango with nothing else at all 1 hours befor flying, then 20 to 30 min befor have a red bull. Don't have a coffee, trust me, it will keep you sharp for 1 hour till it wears off, increasing blood flow to the brain will not only help you function better, it will re open old instincts and help you learn better. Try it, it works for me. I had a severe head traumer with swelling to the brain and an inch deep puncture wound to my skull and a broken neck. I didn't even know my name ems a week. My left hand is still half papalised but if i do this diet trick it gives me the best chance of being sharp. I would think about what you wrote Clint and try again. Wears of after an hour what about a 3 hour flight. Mate I aplaud you for coming back from what you have been through but to write comments like the above borders on stupidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyhog Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I think the other comment about the Qantas captain IS stupidity.If the 2 Jabirus in question were RAAus reg'd,the captain would have to had to convert over to an RAAus licence with an instructor and could not possibly lack enough skill to do what was alleged.Even if they were VH reg'd,it's still blsht.Maybe there needs to be a tall stories forum added. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLA82 Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 ,it's still blsht.Maybe there needs to be a tall stories forum added. I second that, some of these reply's to threads are getting pathetic, a tall stories thread or just a case of grow up is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deskpilot Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Hi Kevin. I haven't flown a J160 so I can't experience what you experience. So how can I help you ask. Firstly, is there another instructor you can try? cause your current one doesn't seem to be helping you. Have you thought of trying another aircraft as suggested. Take a trip to Aldinga, Murray Bridge or Gawler and take a TIF in something other than the J160. Not all Jabirus fly the same. I fly as LSA55, don't have trouble climbing but do tend to favour the lefthand side of the runway. My solution is the treat the right had edge as a datum. Not good practice perhaps, but it works for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mad Dave Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I agree with the other guys who say "give it a bit more time", I have only flown Jabirus and Tecnam, but I do find the Jab a little harder to keep in a straight line on the ground, you just need a bit more time to make sure you can keep on top of it, and anticipate what it is likely to do. I also agree with Mike that if you can afford a Jab, there are a lot of really good aircraft in your reach. Cheers, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Hi Kev, There's Sportstars available at Parafield and Aldinga, I'd recommend giving one of them ago. I've flown both types and owned a Sportstar, I'd suggest (my opinion only of course) the Sportstar would give you a better "transition" than the Jabbi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 wow from all the talk of directional control on these Jabs it sounds like they need a couple of fence palings nailed onto the rudder and fin to keep them going where you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahlocks Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Nah, The sportstar has 'autoleft' as well. ;) And it is as twitchy as all buggery during the ground run. The newer ones have addressed the twitchy steering and there is a mod available for the earlier models. You do get used to it with practice though.:black_eye: I've often wondered if the drift to the left is a subconscious thing from having driven on the left of the centre line for so long. i_dunno Cheers! Steven B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 heavy jet pilots do 'precision approaches' that involve a set up the attitude and no flare landings they all tend to 'arrive' rather than land. they can never seem to relearn. during the making of 'on a wing and prayer' years ago a 747 cpt was on the trip he wiped out the carry thru beam and springs on the Thruster 4 times due to this habit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelorus32 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 heavy jet pilots do 'precision approaches' that involve a set up the attitude and no flare landings they all tend to 'arrive' rather than land. they can never seem to relearn. during the making of 'on a wing and prayer' years ago a 747 cpt was on the trip he wiped out the carry thru beam and springs on the Thruster 4 times due to this habit Yeah, I think it varies Ozzie - it's just like the view that some people put about here from time to time that all ag pilots are cowboys. No they're not, just like not all heavy pilots have trouble flaring... Some heavy pilots have a good set of hands and some don't, some rec pilots have a good set of hands and some don't - ask my daughter what she thinks of me (she's wrong of course). I've seen enough good flying in light aircraft from heavy pilots not to be convinced about this generalisation at all. Kind regards Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barefootpilot Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Remember boys and girls - to Assume makes an ass out of U and Me! I get the Cowboy thing alot as a float pilot because we have to do thing a little different. Just because its different doesn't mean its unsafe or wrong its just different. Back onto the thread though I, in my entire hour in the Jab found it a little different but you will get used to it in time or as others have said go and see Dave at YPPF and try out the sports star. I found the sports star a little more conventional (kind of had to work it out as Dave just threw me and another bloke into it and told us to tell him what it flew like!) Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poteroo Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 There's no question that the J160 is a much more difficult aircraft to manage in landing and takeoff than a C150/152. Not one PPL I've converted has been able to manage it in under 5 hrs, and I know of another largish RAA school that has had the same experience with dozens of PPL's. It's also a fair comment that low wings are easier to fly than high wing. In GA, that's definitely the case. I've not flown a Sportstar or Texan, but friends tell me they are just so much easier than the Jab. But, I'm not at all surprised that someone who's been out of flying several years is having fun with a J-160. It will be like starting over. Jabs, especially the J160, are unforgiving of poor directional control, and of fast, flat touchdowns. You have to be very 'positive' with controlling them. Your instructor should be insisting on lifting the nosewheel early in the t/o run, and during landing flare, it should be held off until you have no further elevator command. While the nosewheel is off the ground - the Jabby will do as it's told by your feet. Directional control is all in the feet!! Make 'em work! good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T500 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 well well I guess Maj Millard is theee Ross Millard hi Ross Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T500 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 hey Kev dont give up it will all fall into place I could be wrong but sounds like your rudder chasing for the centre line I tell students stop line the aircraft up to the centre of the runway forget the white line, aim for a point at the end of the strip if your going recreational dont forget 95% of your runways are going to be dirt or grass so wheres your centre line and piano keys then, try a grass strip while training you want have to worry about the center line have the aircraft heading for the point you pick at end of runnway for take off your feet will do your walking 4 you just another hint i know some students that were learning in a jab with another school they had done 30hrs plus not solo yet, they were going to give it away, there flying was no prob but, when coming into land everything went to fast for them I sujested a plane change to like a gazelle, (Funny they asked me what a Gazelle was) there was one in their flying school,told them what the difference would be, they did the change and went solo after a few lessons with a big smile on their face Ive flown warriors since 1972 gave it away for 10yrs due to fees being to high $19.50 hr and i was only earning $20 for a 35hr weeks boy times change my first aircraft i jumped into when i decided to start again was a T500 Thruster :confused: sorry i woffel to much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Most of you're GA type aircraft have a bit of toe-in set on the main wheels, especially Cessnas, Pipers etc. It's generally not much, a couple of degrees or so, but it makes a lot of difference to keeping the aircraft straight on the ground roll. Does anyone remember the VW Bugs front end, back in the days when you could, and had time to mess around with them ?. They had a few degress toe-in, and one day I took it out didn't I, thinking I might gain a knot or two. Hey, you needed all the help you could get in some bugs!. The first test drive was positivly scary !!, all over the road like a mad womans' Shxx. It required 100% attention just to keep it on the road. Back to the shed real quick to put the toe-in, back in. Back on the road, straight as a die, and stable, requiring minimum steering effort....MAGIC. To cut a long story short, Did Stiffie have a bug, and do the Jabs have any toe-in on the mains ??....................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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