Guest 1134581 Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Sorry you are wrong skydog. (i don't want to be blunt but there is no other way to say it) The coding you refer to is the COUNTRY CODE only, a beacon purchased in any country will work in any other country its just the country code makes it quicker to direct to the appropriate authorities when activated. Its total rubbish that they cant be located, total rubbish. Of course you would buy one coded for Australia to start with. What i am saying is these beacons are cheaper than the other Kannard type/brand. Find the importer for this brand in Australia and ask for a quote through clear prop. There are NO PLB's that are made for aviation, the only beacons made for aviation are hard mounted into the aircraft and fully certified with impact activation etc, we are talking about Personal Locator Beacons here NOT Aircraft Beacons, PLB's are the ones that you have to physically turn on before or after a crash. I am not saying any brand is better than another because i haven't looked into it enough yet, but there is a big difference in price between the McMurdo (based on the USA price of the McMurdo) and the Kannard and the Australian made GME is also cheaper than the McMurdo at $600 for the GPS version through eBay. Mcmurdo units sold in AU links below seem to be high 600's but based on the USA price linked to i am sure we can get them cheaper than that as a bulk purchase through the group. http://www.whitworths.com.au/main_itemdetail.asp?item=74535&search123=mcmurdo&intAbsolutePage=1 http://www.prestigecom.net.au/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2105 Ahh, decisions i guess they will all work or they wouldnt be approved but haw to chose the best for my needs is another matter. I think at the moment if the McMurdo is expensive in Australia i will go with the Australian made GME at $600 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skydog Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Thanks for the country code info 1134581 but how does one get the country code encoded in a unit you buy overseas? My guess it will cost. I would want a unit that is country coded, the possible lost time may save my life. If the Oz available Mc Murdos are high $600? then we are in the same ball park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1134581 Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Agreed the retail price in Australia is high, much higher than the USA price. So that begs the question, are we being overcharged for these units in AU or is there a special in the USA, that i don't know ?. To answer your other question about coding; i rang AusSar today and they will receive and act on ANY beacon deployment. If you have a beacon you purchased in the USA and use it in AU they will find you in exactly the same time as they would if you purchased an AU coded beacon. They prefer you to have an AU coded beacon because the flag is automatically directed to them but in the scheme of things it doesn't really matter. They said (for example) all the Qantas, Jetstar and other heavies flying in our skies all have beacons fitted and coded in the USA by Boeing and the same for Airbus... go figure. I think this is scare mongering by some people to make you buy an AU coded beacon just like the Y2K Virus and computers years ago. I got a GME MT410GPS version PLB off eBay today from an Australian company for $639 delivered with promised overnight delivery so i have gone with that. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skydog Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Interesting comments and info you have uncovered from AuSAR, GO FIGURE INDEED! You should create a news post on this site about that. Anyway Not a bad choice the GME, from the research I did and made in OZ. I like the price point around 600 bucks of any brand. These units look and seem a lot more robust than the cheaper jobs especially critical in the battery, flotation and signal duration departments I reckon. Good flying Mr 1134581. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1134581 Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 The plot thickens AGAIN. Ausar called again today and i have more info about beacons. Seems the AU beacons transmit on 121.5 with a solid continuous signal for final homing to your location and AU seems to like that. US beacons transmit on 121.5 but instead of a continuous tone they send the letter "P" in morse code (i dont know why ??????) Seems AU prefers the solid tone and the US like "P" in morse code. Regardless they will still pick you up and the honing part really only applies to PLB's without GPS otherwise you have your co-ordinates sent and they know where you are. I guess if your drifting in the ocean your co-ordinates may move with the current and thats why they need the 121.5 to home in on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracktop Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 While looking at another thread re SAR followed to this link http://beacons.amsa.gov.au/beacon-models.html down the bottom it states - Purchasing overseas If purchasing distress beacons overseas for use in Australia; make sure that they will meet Australian Standards and Class Licence requirements. Information on the Class Licence that authorises the use of distress beacons can be accessed from the Australian Communications and Media Authority (ACMA). Canadian Class 2 PLBs Canada has now amended their Standards to allow a Class 2 PLB that is not required to float. This beacon does not meet the Australian Standard and will not be registered in Australia. United States Coded PLBs We are aware that the United States requires all PLBs for use in the US to transmit the letter "P" in Morse over the homing frequency of 121.5 MHz. This is not permitted under Australian Standards nor by the ACMA's miscellaneous Devices Class Licence that references these Standards and therefore these distress beacons should not be used in Australia. Any 406 MHz beacon registered with AMSA is required to be coded with an Australian country code. You may have difficulty recoding a 406 MHz beacon produced for the US market. There may be beacons manufactured to other national standards that are not compatible with Australian standards. You should make sure that any beacon you purchase will comply with the Australian requirements. An important message for beacon retailers If you are selling a 406 MHz distress beacon in Australia AND if your customer is not an Australian resident or company with an Australian address and contact details then they should be advised that they cannot register it in Australia. You must offer to supply a beacon with coding that is appropriate for registration overseas. For more information on registering a distress beacon in Australia click here. back to top An important message for buyers If you are buying a 406 MHz Distress Beacon in Australia AND if you are not an Australian resident or company with an Australian address and contact details then you must not buy an Australian coded beacon because (as a foreign resident) you will not be able to register it in Australia. You should seek advice from your supplier about coding a beacon for registration overseas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1134581 Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 That backs up what i was told on the phone with a little more detail. But as the guy said, "all this relates to REGISTERED BEACONS", if you dont register your beacon and you deploy it they will still come looking for you as quick as they would if it was registered. I don't want to say don't register your beacon because it will cut down on their preliminary efforts before rescue. In summary, buy an AU beacon for the best performance and operation, but if you purchase an overseas beacon then thats ok, you just wont be able to register it at the AU website (but you will still register it on the USA or equivalent site) and regardless of anything, if you deploy ANY beacon they will still come a looking for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest magcheck Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Just one thing that may be worth looking at before buying one from overseas is the wording of the rules for the requirement for the carriage of a beacon. I understand that the RA-Aus requirement is because the exemption to CAR 252A has been withdrawn. So if that is true you will need to have a PLB that meets the standards detailed in CAR 252A, http://www.comlaw.gov.au/ComLaw/Legislation/LegislativeInstrument1.nsf/0/26E72E6AB6DB6656CA2575420083783B/$file/CAO2011No1Explan.pdf Another point to note in the explanatory notes (link above) is that it states on page 2 that It must be registered with the Australian Maritime Safety Authority (AMSA). Just a small point on the comment above :) "if you deploy ANY beacon they will still come a looking for you!" Its actually "if a beacon is detected" rather then "if it is deployed" :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracktop Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 If you accidently deploy an unregistered OS beacon and they come looking for you because they cannot check first that it's most likely valid, and then they find you residence is in Aus can / will they bill you for the effort?. If you cannot register an AU beacon without an AU residency then can you register a US beacon without a US residency? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cebelia Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 That backs up what i was told on the phone with a little more detail. But as the guy said, "all this relates to REGISTERED BEACONS", if you dont register your beacon and you deploy it they will still come looking for you as quick as they would if it was registered. I don't want to say don't register your beacon because it will cut down on their preliminary efforts before rescue. In summary, buy an AU beacon for the best performance and operation, but if you purchase an overseas beacon then thats ok, you just wont be able to register it at the AU website (but you will still register it on the USA or equivalent site) and regardless of anything, if you deploy ANY beacon they will still come a looking for you! A couple of things here to update you on regarding beacons and coding. and you can view the FAQ on beacons HERE. Using a non-Australian coded, made to USA Standards beacon means that your details are not held in the Australian 406 Beacon Database. This means that there is a significant lag in being able to start the contacts process, if it can be started at all. You also don't have the facility to update your details online - itinerary, passengers etc if you opt for a foreign-coded beacon. Only Australian Coded beacons can be registered on the instantly searchable, user-updatable Australian Database, recoding can be done at the manufacturers' liaison point and has been pointed out before - there is a significant cost associated with it- more than you'll save by buying an overseas PLB. Secondly, USA Coded beacons are not approved for use in Australia, which means you can find yourself facing fines for using a non-approved transmitter. Thirdly, the CASA regulations, as PMK has quite correctly noted, state "Carriage of a registered PLB" and there is a significant fine attached (again, more than you save by buying an Australian beacon) for being caught without one. So to put it quite simply: Regulations say you (if size, and distance applies) must have a Registered beacon. You can only register an Australian Coded Beacon. You will be fined for not having a registered beacon, you can be fined for using a non-approved transmitter, and recoding will also cost money. It is the far better option to buy an Australian Standards Approved, Australian Coded Beacon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galpin Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 PLB's Up to where? I was never much good at maths and have lost count of how many have said on this thread that they would order a unit. Being that as it may, how many have said they will order a unit? Where are we up to? Ian, when is the cut-off point for the current round of orders and when should we make payment to Clear Prop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Qwerty Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Cebelia, Thanks for the clear, concise info but I've got ten bucks says someone will get on here and argue the toss with you. Cheers, Qwerty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1134581 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 All good points and thats why I purchased an Australian Beacon from GME. At least we have waded through the beacon laws and finally have it nailed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cebelia Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 All good points and thats why I purchased an Australian Beacon from GME. At least we have waded through the beacon laws and finally have it nailed! Sure :) Well done on the purchase of a GME beacon - out of curiousity, did you go for GPS or not? A case in point about carriage of PLBs was the recent crash in South Australia, the pilot realised he was in an unrecoverable situation and actually activated his PLB before he crashed. He was incredibly fortunate (if you see the incident photos) to have walked away with only a few stitches required (plane.. another story) but the elapsed time between setting off the beacon, his wife (primary contact) being contacted and help arriving on the scene all reinforce how much better the digital 406 service is. If there are specific questions re beacon usage/specs, please feel free to ask... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slartibartfast Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Yep - thanks Cebelia. I assume you work in a relevant government agency here in sunny Canberra? I got a GME 410G too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cebelia Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Yep - thanks Cebelia. I assume you work in a relevant government agency here in sunny Canberra? That is correct. Shall I :duck for cover:now?? The concern is that people will, through trying to do the right thing and buy a beacon, but trying to save themselves money (can't blame you), end up in a mess because they've bought a beacon which can't be registered in Aust. I've also been working with other Government departments to have the 121.5s blocked from resale on eBay - if someone, again - thinking they were doing the right and responsible thing in buying a beacon, bought a 121.5 and were relying on it in emergencies - the results could be tragic. Again - if there are questions regarding beacons, (EPIRBs, ELTs or PLBs) please sing out. If I don't know, I will find out for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wigg Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Hi Ian, If you still have one available I will put my name down for one please. No urgency though plane still in pieces. Regards John Wiggett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1134581 Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 I don't know you can block beacons from eBay because they are still LEGAL to sell. Doing my research i found that all of Europe and the USA still uses 121.5 beacons with the new ones being an option. So unless the beacons are made illegal then you can still sell them. A lot of people forget that the new beacons still transmit on 121.5 as well as 406 anyway. Having said that i DON'T endorse buying or using a 121.5 beacon and in fact the two i had went to battery world for destruction, now i just have one i share between the boat and the plane when i can afford to hire it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cebelia Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 I don't know you can block beacons from eBay because they are still LEGAL to sell. Doing my research i found that all of Europe and the USA still uses 121.5 beacons with the new ones being an option. So unless the beacons are made illegal then you can still sell them. A lot of people forget that the new beacons still transmit on 121.5 as well as 406 anyway. Having said that i DON'T endorse buying or using a 121.5 beacon and in fact the two i had went to battery world for destruction, now i just have one i share between the boat and the plane when i can afford to hire it. 121.5's are no longer legal to be sold in Australia. Used or otherwise. From 1 February 2010, anyone using a 121.5 (i.e. carrying one, activating one for hoax or other purposes) will be liable for prosecution, The fact that digital 406 beacons transmit on 121.5 is advertised on every beacon sold and is part of the AS:NZ Standard, so people do tend to be aware of it. The reason why is purely a homing functionality. Yes, 121's are still used in Europe and in the US, but that's due to their own particular mitigation strategies. In Australia, due to the tyranny of distance (think British people who don't realise how big the Blue Mountains are) an analogue 121.5 beacon, manufactured under the old standard, is no longer fit for any purpose and should be disposed of at Batteryworld. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabby Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Re PLB's Hi Ian, I've been away for a few weeks,Hope I'm not too late to get a plb. Please let me know the procedure for payment etc., You can contact me on 0408203362 Thanks again And congrats on your recent appointment to RAA Cheers Jabby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Does anyone know the price to get a battery replacement on any of these units, and where they have to be sent to. ie local or overseas, I understand these units have a battery shelf life of FastFind 211 5 years Kannad XS3 6 years GME 410G 7 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1134581 Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 The GME is $60 including battery and service, new seals etc. Must go back to Gladesville in Sydney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 Hi Ian, Can you please let us know where we are up to with these. How do we order and pay for them and any idea when they will be available? thanks Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Sorry guys for taking some time to get back to you - I am only just now starting to get my head above water on a very busy few weeks. So this is the list so far - the wholesale cost is $599 each and I have to pay the $12,000 up front. They are expected to arrive within the next 1 to 2 weeks. Peter Jabby Wigg Galpin Thruster87 Qwerty x 2 Skydog Sky Gazer Mad Dave JR Mobile Tracktop Thx1137 Ozzie Airborne Upper Hunter x 2 Drizzt1978 Perthjay85 McGuyver Bilby54 Please PM me if you want to take your name off the list or post here if you want to add it on. You can make your purchase here: Aviation Pilot Supplies Shop | Flight Gear | Aircraft Instruments - Other :: The Kannad Deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Does anyone know the price to get a battery replacement on any of these units, and where they have to be sent to. ie local or overseas, I understand these units have a battery shelf life ofFastFind 211 5 years Kannad XS3 6 years GME 410G 7 years Remember that Kannad quotes the "minimum" so my guess is the Kannad is about the same as the GME. The Kannad batteries are from the distributor in Adelaide and they are getting back to me with a price as they have not needed any yet. Remember though the prices for batteries are as of now. We have seen how the prices and supply of PLBs have skyrocketed lately based on demand due to the rule changes here in Australia. This means that in 7 years time there is going to be a massive need for batteries so it is hard to say what GME etc will do with prices here in Australia however Kannad is a world wide supplier so my guess is their prices may remain stagnant with the exception of normal cost increases. Just a point that I have considered personally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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