circuitsun

Oop's not so conversant with this forum stuff. BUT, my question is, have any certificate pilots noticed no avdata invoices issued lately ? Eg over the last monrh or so ?

tags ?

Yeah I prefer eyesight test thanks, Does explain why I land better when I close my eyes

Mmm my apple must be substandard!

That's unreadable Matty

Yes Frank, I was one of those sad sac's you refer to, I even thought m&m were doing a great job ! Learn' t otherwise, racked my brain for ways of enlightening membership to the real picture, but it appears ars.......es like then know how to manipulate apathy very effectively, & I have not yet come up with any answers that would affect the status quo. Very depressing. I am certainly not alone in my regret for allowing these pricks to hijack what was, a great movement.

no problems at all, tell them to talk to micheal @ RAA, he jump to help. maybe double the cert charges, perhaps a levy on members should fix it. No end of possibilities

Your question surprises me Coljones, I thought it is very clear in my letter [attached in first post ] & the following conversations. I am presuming you are not a RAA member, so would suggest you have a re-read of the thread, & get back to me if that does not answer your query. Regards,

Poteroo, you are likely correct, re the horsetrading. But in my view, you are wrong about the argument over the privacy policy fiasco. The members [some] voted the directors in, on the presumption they would would protect & work in, the members interests. Fair assumption. For the board to, trade off members privacy, without the members even being aware, shows they knew it was wrong, but went ahead anyway because it suited their plans. Such a cavalier attitude to the members interests, glaringly indicates we are very low, on their priorities. Probably be on the bottom except for the money we contribute. Pedantic & bloody minded ? perhaps, You obviously consider your privacy of less value, that's your privilege, enjoy facebook; titter; siri; etc etc etc, but please don't shoot me down because I hold to different values. Whether I personally voted or not is totally irrelevant. I REPEAT The members [some] voted the directors in, on the presumption they would would protect & work in, the members interests. Fair assumption. enjoy,

The examples are all irrelevant PM. I'm know lots of organizations have parts of our personal data, Hell. I do live in today's world. But when I joined RAA they had a sound [i thought] privacy policy with which I felt comfortable, management continually mouthed support for our privacy. But for RAA to then do a 180 turn-around, & on a whim, add a line to the privacy policy to annul it, then give out our personal details to a 3rd party. without any consultation or even notification, to its own members That is the issue for me. I was going to reply,...but no won't waste my time.

when I started adding an account charge onto my invoices for late payment, I was advised I cannot add a charge to an invoice, I was recommended to include it in the original invoice, then discount it, if paid on time. am I maybe a couple of decades out of date ? is does that still hold ? need an expert here !

sorry, the above post was for KR, But to FH, Surely it is not up to you to go to the trouble t oclarify a incorrect invoice, do them the courtesy perhaps, of letting them know, but no more is require, .. . is it?

Pls keep us posted on that one ! I'm sure many would like to know the outcome.

I'm curious, can they invoice you if there is no a/c contact with the ground ? they do not have control of the airspace,....do they? and if not, how do they work out that you have actually touched down ?

Thank you Frank I wish I could put it as clearly & accurately as you just have. Yes F.H. I am expecting negative flak here & in sport pilot magazine, but at the moment I don't give a shit. Turbo, the major difference, as I see it is, the GA register has always been that way, I don't think that it's right, but pilots knew that, before they went onto it. discrimination .... mmmmm maybe casa can be taken to task on that ? DHYB !

mmmm I suspect you are quite right. The issue of landing rights has been around for a long time, too long, RAA could have & should have started a serious dialogue with the members years ago. I am quite sure [ maybe optimistic ] the majority would have responded with a co-operative approach, maybe not immediately but over time the situation would have improved, as it became accepted. This should not have become the problem it has. Michael told me that 5 -6 years ago, the pilot register was open to the public, & it was removed some time before the change in structure, I would really like to hear that confirmed. If true, It does paint a different picture. Michael also said, RAA , at a meeting with AAA offered a substantial amount of money to AAA so offset some of the Fees not collected, to try and reduce the animosity. First I've heard of any of this. There are many ways this problem could have been solved. But playing loose with members right to privacy, is NOT the way to go, ever. Poor judgement by people that should have had more ethical backbone, than to even consider it.

So...thought I'd get bold & start a new thread, to keep this separated from landing fee issue. I have sent my complaint to RAA, [see attached] & received a call from the CEO, very polite, but just a soothing exercise. Very emphatic that RAA has not done anything untoward, & it is all legit, & the vast majority of members are all behind them. etc etc I accept I am in a VERY small minority. In today s world, privacy is given very little regard. In RAA it will be those affected " in the pocket" - a small percentage of aircraft owners, who are a small percentage of members. So Michael is probably right, only a very small minority will complain, - just a bit of noise to ignore. I still intend lodging a complaint with the commissioner [in 30 days time]. Beyond that, I see very few options but to "eat it". Depressingly, we have no power of control over the direction & actions of the board, and thus RAA. We are now the minions of a mini casa. Ironically, escape from the stifling domination of CASA/DCA. was one of the basic motivations in the formation of AUF , and a motivation for many of the private pilots migrating to RAA. I have put my complaint letter into the L t E in Sport Pilot, with my name at the bottom. I am sure it will generate some flak, I am just curious to see how little attention it will get. mmm perhaps a little masoc..... of me. Cheers everyone. A formal complaint to RAA.docx A formal complaint to RAA.docx

Brilliant trip JG, Inspiring,

Yeah, i also just got an invoice for landing & refueling @ Chinchilla. avdata is really having a ball with it's new found list, I'm sure they are the M&M's new best friend, I bet they had a good party to celebrate that little aquisition. They are a bloody parasitic organisation.

well I hope this is the correct thread to post this on, but .... I have finally submitted my formal complaint to RAA concerning the privacy breach. could probably do wit ha bit of polish but I have cut & pasted it here, please give me some feedback & all the flak you wish . A formal complaint to Recreational Aviation Australia LTD ; [ RAA ] I direct my complaint to those responsible for the changing of the privacy policy, and the wilful disclosure of my personal information, to a 3rd party, without my knowledge or permission. This being done without any prior consultation with, or even notification to, the members of the organization you are bound to protect. Since I joined RAA, I have read the privacy policy carefully, and considered it a reasonable, standard policy. To reinforce that policy you have repeated your commitment to it on numerous occasions since. So, what was so valuable, what was the “pot of gold” that made you sell out your own members, those people that put you in place, who trusted you, to guide and govern the organization we are financing. To look after our interests in the flying world, including our privacy; - yes the same things you have been repeatedly promising over the years. Or am I wrong? There was no real reason, no big reward, was simply a total disregard and display of utter contempt for member’s rights to privacy, as per the policy document, as per your repeated promises, that you gave them all away on a whim to please a 3rd party ? How long is it, since you read your own RAA governing policy, check out sect 2.1 for example, how hypocritical is that now! How can you go out & face the members, and tell us you are looking after our interests, & doing what you were voted in to do? You have failed in your duty to all the members of RAA, in the biggest way. To be so cavalier, in your handling of member’s privacy is unconscionable. This is not just a breach of privacy; it is a breach of trust. In doing this you have seriously compromised yourself; your word is no longer of any value. Who would be foolish enough to believe your promises and statements into the future? so I ask you: considering the above, are you now, really fit or even able, to continue in the position you were entrusted with? This is not just noise, or just one more petty complaint to ignore. Please do not answer with “weenie” statements about being only a partial disclosure, only to a few parties, and being in our best interest. Please do not muddy the waters with the reason, you saw fit to enforce landing fees. That is a totally different issue which is petty and irrelevant to this privacy breach. That issue should have been taken up with member’s years ago, when you saw a problem looming. I respectfully request a copy of the minutes of the board meeting, at which this decision was discussed and made. I would like to know who proposed it, and who voted for or against it. I am extremely disappointed. I consider your actions to be morally & ethically indefensible, & legally challengeable This complaint is a prerequisite to lodging a complaint with the Privacy Commission. Yours Sincerely

And thanks for putting your hat in the ring , You are offering to take on a daunting task !

Kasper, I have followed your posts for some time, and would be very happy to nominate you, However I am new to this forum thing, .... how do I "PM" you ?

A very interesting read Ian, into a world I have very little knowledge & understanding of. My hat's off to you, for your persistence & for maintaining a fantastic resource for pilots. A very sincere thank you. .. donation following

So, the big question is, how do we put a bomb under the apathetic majority of members to at least dispense with those that are obviously not working in our interest ?

Please excuse any screw-ups wit this post, it is the first one I have ever made [in my life], I have followed this forum for some years now, learnt quite a lot in thew process, thanks to your posts. Yes, I admit now, I was one of the majority, "just wanted to fly' & let others run the show. BIG MISTAKE ! I was gobsmacked [yes, please excuse my naivety ]when I discovered my personal information had been treated with such disregard & contempt by RAA. Not any consultation, or even notification, that the privacy policy, under which I signed on with RAA, was going to be, effectively, trashed, & my personal data released on a whim. - guess it indicates how little protection a privacy policy really offers, & the continual assurances from our esteemed chairman & CEO. was totally worthless. They, along with the directors that voted for this, have lost all personal honour, their word & integrity is now totally worthless, They can no longer be trusted in any endeavor. The sheer arrogance is a smack in the face, to put it mildly, & a huge disappointment in RAA. that I, in my ignorance, thought was going along quite well. It has however shaken me out of my apathy somewhat, I started doing some research into the operation of RAA, esp since the change to company status. Fellow members, . . . We have truly been screwed, I am SO sorry now, I didn't pay more attention to those of you, that obviously [now], knew more about what was going on, & tried to warn of the hijack, that was in process. Alas, those intelligent voices, were drowned by the slick smiles & tongues, of those with their own agenda's. We have now lost control of our own association. I have completed my draft complaint to RAA, that is a requisite for a complaint to the privacy Commission. I will continue, as best I can, to look more closely into the workings of RAA. I am sure I am not along in my anger at, & disappointment in, RAA, & urge all of you, to look more closely at what is actually going on in "YOUR" RAA [easier said that done I admit ] If you share my disappointment/dissatisfaction, lodge a complaint to RAA, followed [30 days later] by a complaint to the P.C. discuss RAA's governance with other members, & try to get the jist of what is really happening, With less apathy, & just a little action, perhaps we can still make a difference, change the direction back to what RAA was origianlly conceived to do. Not allow a mini casa to develop. be much more skeptical of statements by M & M, they have proven to be less than respectful of the truth, & more than a little manipulative. A very sad situation indeed. thanks for reading.