IBob

Nobody's obliging you to listen to him, Danny. However, it seems to me you are at risk of shooting the messenger here. You may not like the man (and it is evident from the effort you are putting in to dig the dirt that you do not), but whether he is likeable or not is an entirely different question than whether he has something valid to say. This thread is about the recent accident at Dallas, it's not about what Dan Gryder did somewhere else ten tears ago, and there is no connection between the two.

Specifically, we are interest in what the pilot of the P63 was doing. Dan Gryder states that the air boss was directing events by radio, and had asked the P63 to move up, to get ahead of the B17. IF that is correct, then it would explain what appears to be the acceleration, increased turn radius and bank of the P63.

Danny, the AOPA guy gives us a talk on how and why the flying is organised in airshows. It's interesting and useful information as far as it goes but he offers us no insight as to what happened on the day. Juan Browne covers much of the same ground, again it is useful and interesting but with no specific insight. In trying to understand, I am inclined to listen to anyone who can offer genuine insight, regardless of their position and past history. I don't see 'experience in airshows' or 'never got caught up in small town politics' as being necessary qulifications.

So, we have Juan Browne focusing on vertical separation (or lack of it) while this latest analysis at no point mentions that, but focuses entirely on horizontal separation........

Blueadventures, any idea what went wrong that they had to ditch???

That's an excellent description of the ditching/door situation. I would think the UC was damaged during the salvage, Rankamateur: it's inverted forward and if the tail was sticking up, presumably they would have dragged it backwards. Regardless, once the door was no longer held to the fuselage by water pressure, I think you could deform it, if necessary to get it fully open. Or, put another way, the doors are quite light and flimsy when free, only rigid when pressed tight against the fuselage.

Yep, shock is a wild card, even when you know you are suffering from it: Long time ago I rolled a Holden down a very long bank with 3 of us on the front bench seat. When we came to rest there was no glass in the car, every panel was bent, the engine and gearbox were off their mounts and the gas tank was empty, having torn open on a fence we passed through along the way. Our final roll was arrested by a power pole, which stove in the roof just behind us. Sounds dramatic, it was and I'm not making any of it up. The 3 of us were amazingly unhurt, probably because we were packed in snug so didn't rattle around too much. And all in shock: The guy in the middle was gone, unbelted, climbed over the other passenger, out the window, up the bank and was walking in circles on the road. The other passenger slumped and burst into tears and I had to persuade him to get out of the car, which I feared would burn. And once I had him out, I became obsessed with finding my sunglasses, which had been on the front shelf, but had departed along with the rest of the glass somewhere on the bank. I knew it made no sense, but that's what I was doing.

Thanks for the update Blueadventures. And I can well imagine it would be pretty stressful having to wait for the pressure to equalise before being able to open the doors. The ditching advice I received from a hugely experienced pilot pretty much boiled down to 'try to drop it on rather than flipping, as flipping can be disorienting, then move deliberately (don't panic!)' I would think one item to be mindful of would be not to activate the inflatable lifejacket until out of the safety harness and exiting the aircraft: would seem to be common sense (isn't it always, in retrospect?), but we recently had a terrible accident here where an entire small group of whale watchers died under an overturned boat in daylight calm weather: the investigation is still underway, but it seems quite possible they inflated their life vests under the boat (quite probably as they were told to do if 'in the water') and so were trapped under the boat by their own buoyancy. That may not be the case, but as things stand it is difficult to explain otherwise.

That'll be a writeoff, surely: salt water in all those 6061 lap joints. Interesting to hear about opening the doors: I would have guessed that would be the case. And due to the gas strut mounted at the rear edge of the doors, popping them in flight results in the door slamming open, and in at least one case mentioned here, slamming and jamming shut. So, useful to know as we traverse Cooke Strait here in NZ......... I'm assuming they didn't turn over when they hit the water?

FWIW I walked some distance round an airfield earlier this year to see what sort of strobe a stationary microlight was using. It was one of the Aveo RedBaron series, like a squat LED dalek: at a distance of 650m in clear daylight it was eyecatching. It would be interesting to see it in the sky.

Good luck, Skippy. As I recall, the Meguiar's on my fogging required a fair bit of elbow grease. But it sounds as though your discolouration is something different.

Hi Skippy. When I painted SVA then removed the protective cover on the doors, I found the polycarbonate had a fogged appearance. Presumably the paint solvents had penetrated the protective cover, and in my ignorance I had done nothing to prevent that (I believe the answer is foil masking?). I was relieved to find that the fogging was at the surface, and I was able to remove it with Meguiar's Clay kit, which is an auto product for removing road film and the like.

Yep. The lever that attaches to the LH throttle connecting rod appears to have been removed. Also there is no sign of the RH carb throttle cable. It's a bit of a mystery. Here is the standard setup, the throttle cables being the lower ones in the pic, the upper ones are choke.

That's an unusual looking throttle setup, Mark: twin sticks and centre throttle, maybe???

That's odd: it's different in NZ: Part 91, General Operating and Flight Rule. CAA of NZ 91.313 VFR cruising altitude and flight level (a) A pilot-in-command of an aircraft operating within the New Zealand FIR under VFR in level cruising flight at more than 3000 feet AMSL or 1000 feet AGL (whichever is the higher) must, unless otherwise authorised by an ATC unit, maintain the following altitudes or flight levels: (1) when operating at or below 13 000 feet AMSL and— (i) on a magnetic track of 270° clockwise to 089°, any odd thousand foot altitude AMSL plus 500 feet; or (ii) on a magnetic track of 090° clockwise to 269°, any even thousand foot altitude AMSL plus 500 feet. I'm guessing that's because we are a long country lying on a roughly N/S axis, so most traffic would be travelling in either a northerly or a southerly direction.......

There was a dealer, in the Netherlands I think, offered a new one to anyone who could roll theirs (on the flat and without striking a kerb). Supposedly some guy finally managed it in reverse: being front wheel drive all they do going forward is lean at an amazing angle before the back slews round. I can't think he actually rolled it though........more likely it ended up on its side.....)

Two things about the Citroen 2CV: 1. In the 60s and 70s adventurous young folk started to do very big road trips out of Europe.....down and round Africa, over and round India, then back up round the Med into Europe. It was a thing to paint a map on the door of the car, showing the route taken...and some of those maps were really impressive. Of course, you only saw the maps on the cars that made it all the way round....and they were, in no particular order, Land Rover, VW and Citroen 2CV. 2. We once swapped cars for a long weekend with young friends: they had family visiting, and needed more room/seats than their 2CV. So we had the 2CV for the weekend, and it really was one of the most enjoyable weekends of motoring I ever did. Something about the way the thing rode and handled put a big smile on our faces, and by Sunday we were taking folk from the drop zones for rides to spread the joy. The body of the thing seemed quite independent of what the running gear was doing, and at times it was more like sailing in a stiff breeze than driving. If they weren't now worth silly money, I would have one just to relive that.....)

Thanks, Red. I baled on Facebook some years ago when I realised it was making me ugly(er)..........(

Cant access that, Red.......(

Not one of these, by any chance? Or was it definitely US hardware???

hi Mark, I followed your lead on the fuel vales for SVA, have them mounted on the pax side where I can see them, works a treat. I made up some sort of bracket with scrap, and ended up attaching the manifold block with a couple of cable ties, it's absolutely solid. As for the headphone jacks, that's a bit of a puzzle: mine were on the floor console, which is a terrible idea, I recently moved them to a box between the seats at about shoulder height, which is a lot better but still feels a bit clumsy......

Hi Peter, I just PMed you a response as your original post was throwing some strange error here. But it looks to be okay now. Here is what I sent: I am 5'8" and fly my Sav S with the adjustable seat one notch back from fully forward. I found the standard flap handle very awkward, to get full flaps I was not pulling it up, I was pressing towards my stomach, which is not a strong physical action. So I found it clumsy both putting flaps on, and taking them off when doing circuits. Add to this that improperly latched flaps have been known to drop out suddenly, causing considerable aircraft damage in one case that I know of. So I fabricated a new handle with a 12deg bend in it. It works exactly the same as the standard one and addresses all the above problems, I am very pleased with it. However, I was fortunate to have an engineering buddy do the necessary SS cutting and welding for me, it needs to be made precisely and it is not something I could have made on my own. I have provided sketches to other builders, but to my knowledge nobody else has done this. What they are doing here is ditching the ICP handle system entirely, and fitting a slightly modified car handbrake: I believe it is the Suzuki Swift, but I would need to check that. They then grind teeth off the handbrake ratchet, leaving themselves with 3 flap positions (I have the Mark Kyle flap handle mount that gives 3 positions, which I think is a worthwhile change). Since a handbrake only locks in one direction, they then add a spring or bungy so that the flaps do not fall under their own weight while taxiing or parked. I'm in the N Island in NZ, most of the builders in the S Island seem to be going the handbrake way. If you are interested in pursuing this, I could put you in touch with one of them.

Yes. So I wonder if the radiator has internal riser pipes, so the oil is arriving and leaving at the top, even though the external ports are at the bottom. I did a quick search, but was unable to come up with any part number or detail on the radiator they are using.

So it does! I don't understand why the oil would not pass across the lower radiator cores and out the other side, without displacing air that may be in the upper cores? Unless there is something tricky inside the radiator, like internal riser pipes from the ports???

Yep: many years ago the very experienced GA CFI of the aero club (where I lived, not where I am now) collected the fence on approach when someone gave him a go in their brand new microlight.....(