alf jessup

It should be a survey conducted by an independent not the factory, to easy to come up smelling of roses if you bury the unhappy owners Alf

A sad day for another family, RIP fellow aviator

Ok Sorry Jabiru Phil, Not all owners, Was a bit of an oversight on my behalf Alf

Don't know Andy, It was a presumption. Alf

Nev It all started with a factory that has produced a fairly ordinary piece of machinery that hasn't done much than more than put band aid fixes on it for the last 20 years, 50,000 fairly reliable 912's have been produced over the last 25 years compared to 6000 in the last 20 years, someone got it right even though it costs more, you pay a price for reliability. It isn't Maj's fault or anyone else's fault other than the manufacturers they have bought this on themselves through shear denial and blaming of others. I am happy for the likes of Jetr & Frank and plenty of others who have had a good run out them, but I am not happy like the owners who shelled out decent money on a product they have had serious problems with that the factory won't support. Alf

Can't win them all Ross just keep on doing what your doing, our organisation will benefit from the efforts the board puts in, without a board we have no organisation, win win situation I see it, we have an RAA that will give us the privileges to fly and some people might get a better run out of their engines IF the company decides to help the owners instead of blaming them ALL. Alf

Usually speak to them when coming in to West Sale & Bairnsdale when I'm in the area jollying around and hear them calling a 30 mile, Had 2 come in to Bairnsdale while I was around the airport and spoke to them on my whereabouts. You guys provide a great service to the communities and I for one appreciate it. Alf

You flying air ambos Howard?

Correct Nev, The 912 is not immortal but it is not egg shelled either, 3 gears in the gearbox cost about $2500 for those 3 alone and that is just the cost of them, not the labour costs, the gearbox on the 912 is probably the weakest part of the engine and maybe the Ducati CDI ignitions the next but don't hear to much of them going but at about $1600 for a set there not cheap, hose replacements are about $600 - $800 bucks every 5 years but overall they are a very reliable engine with very little destruction going on in them, the 100HP is designed to run on 95 octane and the 80hp on 91 octane. And yes the 80hp is the most reliable I have been told out of all the 912's Just a little info for those who don't know. Alf

Dafydd, 'Without a motor of some shape or form you aint going gliding either unless you got a real big hill to roll off after you have pushed it up a hill or you can pedal the winch real fast. Alf

Laurie, Engine failures shouldn't kill you, been a few fatalities behind the Rotax no doubt like the double near Goulburn but that wasn't the engines fault, yes it stopped but the bloke controlling the rest of it drove it in to the ground, No doubt the Jab IMO has the best survival cell of them all and it probably is the most tested of them all out there flying. Alf

jetjr, Yes correct, I do believe they had fuel injection problems early on in the piece, computer software issues I am led to believe unless of course there were other issues I am unaware of, I personally haven't followed this new engine from Rotax but have heard a few grumblings about it from time to time. Alf

(Deb Wrote) Ross I KNOW that you have info on what raaus have done about this why dont you share it with us ? If your so keen to know Deb join the RAA board, then you will be as privy as Maj & the rest of the board members so until then just wait like the rest of us dear :-) Alf

Probably pancaked in and they weren't exactly young, it's not the fall that kills you it's the sudden stop at the end that does all the damage. Alf

Russ, No one is ever going to call anyone stupid unless they do stupid things while flying, what you have is a healthy respect for living and it is called self preservation, I got that way towards the end in the trikes after about 760hrs flying them, started not liking the turbulence ect, No engine is bullet proof not even the mighty R I fly behind and I acknowledge that, but I still have more confidence in it than other brands, each to their own mate. An engine failure shouldn't kill you if you handle it right but also it is nice to have a little confidence on what's pulling you through the air. There is nothing saying your J160 is going to fail after the wheels leave terra firma and that goes for mine too, but we all have to still practice what we were taught during our training and practice it regular, plenty of pilots out there wouldn't have done a drill since their last BFR and are quite happy to sit fat dumb and happy until the noise stops then deal with it, but that is not for me and although regular practice won't necessary make you perfect it might just make you a little more comfortable when the noise stops. Alf

Fix the problems and no one would have a reason to comment, but until the factory admits they are producing quite a lot of inferior engines and components and actually decide to help the poor people that pay good money for them the comments will continue on a regular basis as these things continue to self destruct. All I can say is thank goodness Camit are at least trying to address the problem as the factory doesn't seem to think they have a problem after you have paid them that is. They are popular alright just look in the classifieds

Deb, Might want to look in the Jabiru engine manual section 2.8 & 2.9 unless I can't read it states the valves & top end are expected to be replaced at 1 cycle (1000hrs) and the engine is expected to make 2 cycles (2000hrs) before requiring a full overhaul. Alf

Nev, Yes true in some respect, the gearbox needs an inspection at 600hrs but I am thinking that may have gone out to 800hrs now but don't quote me on it, and yes hoses to replace ect but that is a far cry from re ringing, new heads and valves not to mention thru bolts on average around 400 to 500 hrs, not many 912's ever have the heads touched in 2000hrs, you may get the odd one but nothing like we are seeing from a J engine, J has been around 20 odd years and so has Rotax (25 years) for the 912, one of them has got it right compared to the other in reliability stakes IMO and they have produced 45000 more engines with far less failures than we are seeing of late. The aircraft itself I have no problem with, it is the mentality of the owner/factory blaming everyone else for their inadequacies I cannot stomach, I know for a fact that one of my friends when buying one on pickup had a few queries regarding the aircraft finish and the answer he got was do you want it or not, because if you don't someone else will buy it, now that is customer service hands down. Yes some have had a good run out of them and plenty of others haven't and some have not had a pleasant experience from the factory either. I for one would love nothing more than J to be a bit more robust, it would be the best valued aircraft in the world today except for what is powering it at the moment. Yes wouldn't we all like a turbine in our organisation as far more reliable and also far more expensive in price and overhaul. Alf

Nev But the maker of these fine quality certified engines boasts on his website a 2000hr TBO which is well and truly dreaming IMO The lovers on here always sprout that there is over 6000 engines produced and the ratio of failures seems ok Mr Bombardier has produced over 50000 912's with a far cry less failures or stoppages considering how many are out there world wide Now that is something to gloat about No 400hr head replacement, no thru bolt failures , no dropping valves and many seeing well beyond the recommended 2000hr TBO with just the normal maintenance In this day and age you get what you pay for At 13K for a J engine and 25K for a R engine I know which one is a bargin for consistency and longevity I want to see the J survive but you can't blame the owners and maintainers all the time there is just as many R owners that would be as bad maintainers but the failure rate is less than a 1/3 rd with almost 10 times the number of engines more out there providing excellent service Alf

I suppose rdarby the first words out of your mouth when you fell in to the canal was FAR Canal

Even the good old glider needs fuel to initially get it in the air whether by winch launch or by tow No fuel will do it every time 100% pilot error if you start running on air

Give all Jab pilots a double AA for being un be known test pilots, and yes a brilliant survivable airframe, 1 out of 2 usually isn't all that bad but shame number 1 is or is it number 2 that is bad???

Or 3:laugh:

Maj, Without guys and girls dedicated to the RAA like you and the others board members we would not have the privileges we have today, yes it is not perfect but it is getting better than before, don't listen to the negatives or Fools Talk, a lot of people on here appreciate what you guys do for us, some on here would whinge if they won 2,000,000 in lotto last week because someone else won 3,000,000 the week before. Can't please everyone. Good job guys Alf

Yes Deb, You are correct now I think of it a Honda engine it might have been, I remember it being an auto engine of the Japanese brand, my mistake, he spent heaps on it to try and get more HP and had serious cooling issues, had more add on parts than Liberace with no real gain in the end. Alf