facthunter Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Despite many attacks on those who did take up solar, the uptake of solar in this country is very high. The current (pun there) rate of feed in tariff is 6 cents/Kw Hr, and at peak you will be charged around 30 cents? Kw Hr. They can't store it at the moment but commercially someone could easily do it with current technology and the price variation. Predictions of it going to 50 Cents have to be BS because of this. HALF your present cost of electricity is poles and wires. Coal fired power stations generate at about 4 cents /Kw Hr but that's without accounting for damage to the environment. The network will carry less current in the future and still cost much the same to operate, unless it is modified extensively. All the energy companies KNOW they have a problem. Its' a poorly kept secret. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 There are still costs Marty. Equipment has to be amortised, but already they are below 10 cents and falling as things get cheaper to install. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Despite many attacks on those who did take up solar, the uptake of solar in this country is very high. The current (pun there) rate of feed in tariff is 6 cents/Kw Hr, and at peak you will be charged around 30 cents? Kw Hr. They can't store it at the moment but commercially someone could easily do it with current technology and the price variation. Predictions of it going to 50 Cents have to be BS because of this. HALF your present cost of electricity is poles and wires. Coal fired power stations generate at about 4 cents /Kw Hr but that's without accounting for damage to the environment. The network will carry less current in the future and still cost much the same to operate, unless it is modified extensively. All the energy companies KNOW they have a problem. Its' a poorly kept secret. Nev The bottom line is that they'll be forced to adapt. Battery systems have already reduced 30% in 2015 and you can get a 7kW system for under $10k now (in some areas - Tassie always seems to be a bit more expensive!) When people do the maths and say "Ok, the initial cost is x and the life expectancy is y and the amount we export, even at the lousy 6c tariff, will cover our line rental - and at the moment we spend z on buying power..." I think it'll become obvious that, unless they have some weird ideological objection to sourcing their power sustainably, the better deal will be solar+battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 If you remain on line , they will buy some from you. It makes sense for them to do it if it can be done quickly. The "service fee" can be expected to increase as there will be less people on the grid, but I will still be prepared to pay it in case I want to do a lot of welding etc or you could charge your batteries when the cost is low and when the cost is high use your batteries to supply your house when there isn't enough sun. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 The good thing about it is that the pricing structure suits feed-in. When it gets really hot every bugger turns on their a/c and the load goes up - and so does the price. This is also the time that your solar is getting the most from the sun so you're probably likely to have excess power to sell back to the grid. In the end I wouldn't be surprised to see "traditional" power companies branching into solar / wind. Batteries can be used in large scale so the existing pole/wire network can remain but generation itself replaced, eventually, with renewables. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasper Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Working on: $30k in todays $$ to install a solar minigrid with battery storage for an average 3 bed house with 4-5 people (probably a bit less but lets start there) and put a 'life' on the batteries of 15 years (probably longer than they will last but I am working positively here and guessing batteries last longer) and assuming you have a very low expectation of return on capital (or cost of loan) of 4.5% and allow in today's dollars $10k available in 15 years to replace the batteries/maintain the system and keep the system running your notional cost of installing and running this system is a bit over $3,500/yr ... about $70 a week. That's probably better than some pay at the moment in grid electric and of course that $70/week is fixed over the 15 years ... your grid provided electric bills are not going to remain fixed for 15 years. Off grid with batteries already works BUT you have to invest additional into the house to lower the base level of electric demand and remain aware of how you run the home - you have to get rid of high electric use lighting, you have to make sure all household appliances are low use (and replacements are lower than their predecessor) AND you need to insulate your house - heating and cooling kills your electric demands. Renovating a 2 bed cottage at the moment for farmstay accommodation and to make it compatible with off grid: - all windows came out and replaced with gas filled double glazed - solar water heating with gas top up and gas cooking - low energy lights throughout as are the appliances - vapor barrier/insulation film sealed to all walls, floors and ceilings - insulation under floors, in walls and in roof till there is no room for more ... it is not quite airtight and requiring an air management system with heat exchange but its close - passive ground source air cooling system - wood burning heating with gas supplementary Currently its staying on grid because the cash for the system went into the fabric of the building and we will run the house for a year or two and monitor actual usage and in particular peaks before then adding in the solar and batteries at a system size that fits with paying customers use. We may be eco aware and minimum use electric people BUT paying customers are not so great. Once that cottage is complete and off grid the rebuilt main house and all farm operations will get the same treatment ... I expect in 3-4 years we will be fully off grid without significant change in operating the houses and farm - including the dairy and manufacturing kitchen and store. Not easy, not inexpensive to establish but very achievable. Then all that's needed is solar cells on the hangar for the aircraft converted to electric and I think I can probably afford to live on my pension and still enjoy flying ;-) 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
microman Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Then all you need is a Nissan Leaf (or similar) electric car which you can charge from you off grid system - and the range on these cars is improving all the time - it was only about 120km but now up to 200 km. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasper Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Then all you need is a Nissan Leaf (or similar) electric car which you can charge from you off grid system - and the range on these cars is improving all the time - it was only about 120km but now up to 200 km. When its over 100km round trip to get to the nearest store for a loaf of bread I am needing great increases in range and given the current electric cars are costing more than installing two stand alone power units for the buildings much lower acquisition costs are needed before looking at electric vehicles 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Then all you need is a Nissan Leaf (or similar) electric car which you can charge from you off grid system - and the range on these cars is improving all the time - it was only about 120km but now up to 200 km. Tesla will start selling cheaper cars soon - if I'd just won lotto I'd be getting their S-class. Full electric, does 0-100kph in under 3 seconds, and up to 500km range. Plus it's got autonomous capability - a friend talked to the owner of one, who said that he lets it drive him to work without touching the controls. Apparently it even monitors mobile networks and if there's a cluster of devices stopped or moving very slowly on the road you're on, it knows there's a traffic jam and recommends an alternate route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Meanwhile the NSW government sells off poles and wires... who in their right mind would spend billions buying? It would be like buying up all the ice-making factories just in time to be put out of business by household refrigerators. Long-term, local production of solar power may be a good thing for aviators; eventually many of those pesky power lines will be pulled down for scrap. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Tesla will start selling cheaper cars soon - if I'd just won lotto I'd be getting their S-class. Full electric, does 0-100kph in under 3 seconds, and up to 500km range. Plus it's got autonomous capability - a friend talked to the owner of one, who said that he lets it drive him to work without touching the controls. Apparently it even monitors mobile networks and if there's a cluster of devices stopped or moving very slowly on the road you're on, it knows there's a traffic jam and recommends an alternate route. I'll let you know all about 'em when ours arrives ... umm soon I think - against my wishes. We got the wall charger with the deposit, yipee. GPS's in China advise different routes, updating by the minute in peak hour and crashes etc. Then all you need is a Nissan Leaf (or similar) electric car which you can charge from you off grid system - and the range on these cars is improving all the time - it was only about 120km but now up to 200 km. Stick to aviation topics thanks Mate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Will this be inspiring a move away from petrol in the aircraft engine design too Bex?? I was just thinking... there'd probably be a market for engine, FWF & battery packages - when the battery capacity can get you 2 or 3 hours of flying at the equivalent weight of a full fuel system. If the BexLectric package came out under $10k I'd be very interested! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Will this be inspiring a move away from petrol in the aircraft engine design too Bex?? I want nothing to do with it, didn't you see my "against my wishes" comment? Daughter's new car, her choice, lipstick environmentalist, you know the sort, half hour in the shower to wash her hair, drives an hour away to meet friends and go shopping, air con or heater on all night .... but forget the hessian shopping bag and come home with a plastic one; run for cover!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 All those photos......all that concept selling.......all that design work, the mistakes, the fixes, and just when the 4 cyl Bexter engine is almost ready to fit........along comes an electric shaver motor! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Daughter's new car $130k car for your daughter? Can I just put it out there that I'm available for adoption. (Don't tell my mother). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
microman Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 I'll let you know all about 'em when ours arrives ... umm soon I think - against my wishes.We got the wall charger with the deposit, yipee. GPS's in China advise different routes, updating by the minute in peak hour and crashes etc. Stick to aviation topics thanks Mate. When I want your advice - I'll pull the chain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 The terms the state government must offer the buyers should concern you, OK. They can probably add up better than governments. Nev 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 The terms the state government must offer the buyers should concern you, OK. They can probably add up better than governments. Nev You're on the money, Nev. Despite government promises, privatisation of public utilities seems to push up prices. Lower income earners will be left with the increasingly costly old system, while those of us who can afford to head down the self-sufficiency path. Funny how only the profitable ones get sold off and the taxpayer is left with the loss-making, but essential services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 When I want your advice - I'll pull the chain. I was merely following the standard you set for us .. I also totally agree with your sentiments Frank - this is an aviation site - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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