sdlarrain84 Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 Hello everyone, So I've started Sport trike flying lessons a few weeks ago. I absolutely love it, but after every flight with my instructor, I feel extremely sick for the next 24 hrs: -Extreme Nausea -Vomiting -Headaches -Muscle aches -Fatigue -Brain fog As a note, I live/practice in Denver, CO (1 mi above sea level) and my first thought is altitude sickness. Does anyone know what it could be? Is it something that can be "overcome"? Will I be able to continue flying? Any advice / experience with these type of effects? Please let me know. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackc Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 Head off to your Doctor and describe your situation, probably start with a full lot of blood tests, also get your eyes checked and wear sunglasses for glare if you don’t already. You could try over the counter sea sickness medication too…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spenaroo Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 I didn't get the vomiting. but got a lot of the other stuff. It is a lot of concentration when learning. found it helped me to prepare ahead of time. would make sure Id eaten a good meal. and sip a sports drink on my drive in, as well as pop a few painkillers before I started the lesson. seemed to help lessen the impact after the flight. still wiped me out, but not on the couch in pain wiped out. also be aware of your limits. by the time you start feeling fatigued its already taken effect, so don't try to push through it - every instructor I've flown with are pretty happy to reduce the load on you and call it a day when you tell them your starting to feel fatigue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 Could easily be stress overload with motion effects. Early on it's pretty intense. Made the lessons bit shorter. 40 mins may be too much when it's full on. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onetrack Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 (edited) If you've been living in Denver for a while, you should be a little more acclimatised to altitude - but altitude sickness affects people differently, possibly because of genetics. Some people are very resistant to altitude sickness, as witnessed by the Sherpas of Nepal, who can go to great heights without oxygen. You may have a low tolerance for altitude increase. 8000 feet is generally the level where altitude sickness is first experienced, most people are generally O.K. to that height. As Denver is at 5280 feet, you may start experiencing altitude sickness at under 2500 feet altitude. You may have medical issues with the balance mechanisms in your ears, it would pay to talk to a doctor about this potential for producing the symptoms you describe. Be aware that carbon monoxide poisoning can produce very similar symptoms to what you have described, particularly at low levels of CO. Ensure you have CO monitoring in the aircraft you fly in, to check this potentially dangerous problem. Small, cheap CO detectors/monitors are readily available. Edited October 10, 2022 by onetrack 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyBoy1960 Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 Ears would be my guess, probably fluid in there. Get it checked out, also prednisolone/predsolone under script will help dry out the canals 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 Watch out for side effects of any drug when you are flying.. Don't get too hot or be dehydrated. Ginger may aid motion sickness, Nev 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 Would you believe that there is a phobia related to getting airsick? It is called Aeronausiphobia, not joke. https://psychtimes.com/aeronausiphobia-fear-of-vomiting-due-to-airsickness/ I suffer from it myself, which is a real PITA. But if you accept your fear, and carry a barf bag and mouthwash, you can deal with it. Having said that, from the symptoms described, I'd say our friend is suffering from self induced stress brought on by trying to carry out the tasks of the lesson perfectly. Back off a little. You have an instructor there to catch you if you fall. Shorter lessons are a good idea in the early stages. You don't simply buy a pair of runners and go do a marathon without have conditioned yourself by building up from running a mile. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 It's a NEW , Unfamilar and challenging environment. Moving your head around can cause problems. Give your self time to adjust.. I can still get queasy with someone doing aeros badly after a lifetime of flying.. IF you're controlling the plane yourself, you don't. Nev 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planedriver Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 When i started flying, I felt the same as you until after take-off, when the instructor said "you have control", things then changed for me and I felt so much better. I assume it was due to having to concentrate on the job in hand, rather than worrying about the lumps and bumps in the air which I seemed to forget about. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APenNameAndThatA Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 (edited) I second the comment about carbon monoxide. You can get quantitative detectors. Except you are in a trike, which I ASSUME would make that unlikely. Your symptoms do sound a lot like CO poisoning. You might want to check your O2 sats while flying and compare them to your day-to-day levels. Supplemental oxygen without carefully examining that issue would be overkill, I expect, although some people use oxygen from a pressure altitude of only 8000 ft if flying at night. I would expect that you can’t get altitude sickness without first being hypoxic. O2 saturation below 90% is a rough cutoff for low oxygen levels but aviators probably want it higher. If the headache is on one side of your head and throbbing (throbbing = worse with each heartbeat) then you have developed a migraine headache. They are caused by lots of things, including stress, and cause nausea. There are specific preventative treatments for migraine. If you really do love the flights, then stress is much less likely to be a problem. You would probably already know if you are vulnerable to motion sickness, and you would know if what you had was like motion sickness for you. You could read a book while a car passenger to test this. And desensitise yourself to it by doing the same thing. Apparently the three different axies desensitise somewhat independently. You could also see what rollercoasters do. Closing your eyes decreases motion sickness. You might, and might not, like to go for a trike ride with your eyes closed. Disclaimer: I gave only 230 hrs. Edited October 10, 2022 by APenNameAndThatA 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APenNameAndThatA Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, APenNameAndThatA said: I second the comment about carbon monoxide. You can get quantitative detectors. Except you are in a trike, which I ASSUME would make that unlikely. Your symptoms do sound a lot like CO poisoning. You might want to check your O2 sats while flying and compare them to your day-to-day levels. Supplemental oxygen without carefully examining that issue would be overkill, I expect, although some people use oxygen from a pressure altitude of only 8000 ft if flying at night. I would expect that you can’t get altitude sickness without first being hypoxic. O2 saturation below 90% is a rough cutoff for low oxygen levels but aviators probably want it higher. If the headache is on one side of your head and throbbing (throbbing = worse with each heartbeat) then you have developed a migraine headache. They are caused by lots of things, including stress, and cause nausea. There are specific preventative treatments for migraine. If you really do love the flights, then stress is much less likely to be a problem. You would probably already know if you are vulnerable to motion sickness. You could read a book while a car passenger to test this. And desensitise yourself to it. Apparently the three different axies desensitise somewhat independently. You could also see what rollercoasters do. Closing your eyes decreases motion sickness. You might, and might not, like to go for a trike ride with your eyes closed. Disclaimer: I gave only 230 hrs. oops Edited October 10, 2022 by APenNameAndThatA 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 We are talking about a trike. How can you get CO2 problems there (except on the ground idling with a tailwind) Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyBoy1960 Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 quite easily in fact, when you're sitting in front of the trike you are creating a huge vacuum behind you as well as the vacuum in the front cowling. This vacuum can pull fumes through the back skirt from the engine area. In my thousands of hours of trike flying I could smell fuel just after takeoff when I would overfill the tank for a big adventure and on one day I could actually smell coolant, looked behind me and there was a leak! Even though you don't think it is possible, it is possible ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 CO2 only comes out of the exhaust pipe which exits with some velocity and is angled into the airstream and backwards. I would consider it extremely unlikely to happen in practice.. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyBoy1960 Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 17 minutes ago, facthunter said: CO2 only comes out of the exhaust pipe which exits with some velocity and is angled into the airstream and backwards. I would consider it extremely unlikely to happen in practice.. Nev it may go out the exhaust pipe properly if it is perfectly intact, but a lot of the two-stroke engines crack where the manifold exits the engine due to vibration but hey, what would I know, thousands of hours in trikes in the early days. I guess you are saying practical experience doesn't apply in the circumstances 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 Not saying that at all. I'm trying to stick to facts about what goes on. Where the exhaust pipe is aimed has a lot to do with it. If somethings faulty that's another issue... Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onetrack Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 If you have an open cockpit, but there is some type of structure in front of you, even if it's small, you will get eddies into the cockpit that can suck exhaust fumes back into the area around you. It's the same reason why you cannot operate a station wagon or van with an open tailgate, or have a car exhaust system that ends below a back door. The exhaust fumes are sucked back into the vehicle, even with all the windows open, in both cases, thanks to negative pressure inside the vehicle structure, at speeds over about 40kmh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 A station waggon with the tailgate open is not a valid comparison. Maybe a swamp boat IS. Having a pusher prop changes things a lot. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APenNameAndThatA Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 (edited) Take it easy, guys. Did I stir everyone up or something with my carrying on on the other thread? I did not think CO poisoning was possible but I didn’t want to rule it out completely. Turns out it was more likely than I thought. OP should investigate it carefully. Starting to feel sick *after* the flight fits with CO too. Edited October 12, 2022 by APenNameAndThatA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackc Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 I am about to order an electronic unit for carbon monoxide detection, I think Clear Prop on this site has them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 CO is a distinct possibility in any unpressurised plane as there is always a lower pressure inside the plane than outside of it when it's moving, so it can enter anywhere there's an opening. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyBoy1960 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 1 hour ago, facthunter said: CO is a distinct possibility in any unpressurised plane as there is always a lower pressure inside the plane than outside of it when it's moving, so it can enter anywhere there's an opening. Nev what if you open the largest snap vents facing into the wind ? they quite happily pressurize the cockpit. I wouldn't have a clue if it isn't enough however to stop carbon monoxide but it is a lot of wind and if you open and close the vents it can make your ears pop if you do it quick enough. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 They certainly blow air on your face. Whether it changes the balance to full positive would have to be checked. It would aid in giving you better quality air by displacement of the air that's there at least.. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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