geoffreywh Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 I've been following the Viking site for some time. I have seen in print from Jan Eggenfeller that the engines do come from written off vehicles, but you can have a brand new one for about 1400 extra. Why would you bother? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 I had a interesting chat to Adam Finn about the BRS in the Sav this morning.....I will follow it up with a email to him this week to get something in writing but it looks like I will order the chute pretty soon....he thinks it will also change the insurance premiums as well.Glad you got some good stick time as well I knew you would have a good trip back I looked at the weather radar after you took off and saw it was pretty clear for your track back. Quite a lot bugged out after you left we left about 12.30 I think Are you getting one of those Victorian chutes with a spring or a genuine rocket-propelled one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 I will get the one I always planned on..... the magnum with the rocket it is the lightest weight one and 600kg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 http://www.magnumparachutes.com/601.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Only comment about the Viking is that fuel consumption is a lot more than a Rotax according to their power chart figures. Kaz Kaz, where did you get that information about the fuel consumption compared with the Rotax 912ULS? I suppose if the fuel consumption is 7% higher, you're at the break-even point (because the Viking has 10% more power but weighs about 6kg more as well). If the fuel consumption increase is less than that, you'd be ahead. The only way to check the relative consumption in a "fair test" manner would be for two near identical aircraft to fly the same course. This would be possible in the United States as quite a few Vikings have been installed in Zenith CH750 aircraft, as well as Rotax 912s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rmmm Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 New member here. I have been following the Viking Engine for the past six months. Trying to put together shared ownership and a Community College build project. The Zenith CH 750 has been our first choice. BUT..I have just found the Morgan Aeroworks kits. Those are really fine looking aircraft. Will be reading up on these planes for sure. Regarding the Viking Honda Engine.... Here is a post from Jan Eggenfellner, the developer of the Viking Engine. Jan explains very clearly where the engines come from and how they are built up as new aircraft engines. Re: honda engine Posted by: jeggenfellner Sat Oct 16, 2010 3:19 pm All engines are 2009 or newer Honda Fit models. We only use the Block and head. The Honda Fit is what is consider a non-rebuildable car. Any damage at all and it is off to the salvage yard. We buy anything that become available with low mileage and no damage. The engines are then disassembled and brought to new standards. An oil sample is also sent for analyses to further determine the condition of the core engines. Jan The Viking website has a complete photo layout of the entire engine in pieces, along with technical details on crankshaft, pistons, etc. Jan sold 80 engines in the last production cycle for nearly a dozen different aircraft. Impressive. Some earlier comments on this forum tied back to a disgruntled SeaRey owner who launched a very sour tale against Jan. The conclusion made here on this forum, was "Stay Clear". As a CPA (Chartered Accountant) I understand what it takes to build a business. I would suggest readers also consider that this story surely has another side. And, to his credit, Jan never responded in kind. To see what Jan is capable of doing with the SeaRey, go to the website and catch up. A customized mount and cowling is just about done. There are good customers and bad customers. Enough said. Finally, take a look at what Casey Lyons has to say about the work done on his Sonex. Casey swapped out an AeroVee for the Viking. Jan stepped in and designed a new cowling and other drag reducing measures. The results were super. The Viking powered Sonex will do 168-170 mph under the exact same conditions. (Max continuous rpm, 2 people, sea level, etc.) Watching Jan continuously upgrade the Viking Engine the past six months, albeit after a slow start and some verrry long delays, the attention to quality is obvious. If I get the finances in place, no doubt about the engine choice. Cheers Rmmm (Guam) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 I am wondering about another potential aspect to take into account if one is to own a Viking engine: does it use 'standard unleaded' fuel (like the 80 hp Rotax 912 uses) or does it require high octane mogas (like the 100 hp Rotax 912S needs). If so, the 10 cents per litre saved will help pay for the engine over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentreau Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 .... does it use 'standard unleaded' fuel (like the 80 hp Rotax 912 uses) or does it require high octane mogas (like the 100 hp Rotax 912S needs). ..... According to the website http://www.vikingaircraftengines.com/Technical/Tech.html "92 Octane minimum (10% Ethanol max)" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 According to the website http://www.vikingaircraftengines.com/Technical/Tech.html"92 Octane minimum (10% Ethanol max)" But, as far as I understand, the octane ratings in North America don't correspond with the west of the world. Perhaps someone may know the Australian RON rating equivalent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentreau Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 I'll bet Google knows, did you ask them ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rmmm Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 Technical details for the Viking Engine are here http://www.vikingaircraftengines.com/Installation/Tech.html Someone complained about not having weight information. All there. Interesting how much play on various forums a few critics get. But you cannot find anyone complaining who actually is flying behind the engine. Rather, these guys are super pleased. I doubt Rotax is worried, but it is good to have an alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 I have noticed that Jan hasn't posted a single photo or video of him testing an engine in the 5 odd years he has been flogging this package. He is a great salesman as he only sees the potential of the solution he is offering. I have wondered, what happens if you land in an airport and the engine won't start how you go about getting it going again? Or any other myriad of servicing issues that go with the engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guernsey Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 I have noticed that Jan hasn't posted a single photo or video of him testing an engine in the 5 odd years he has been flogging this package.He is a great salesman as he only sees the potential of the solution he is offering. I have wondered, what happens if you land in an airport and the engine won't start how you go about getting it going again? Or any other myriad of servicing issues that go with the engine. Get in touch with the local Honda mechanic I presume. Alan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 me: hi my aircraft engine wont start. honda mechanic: what sort of lawnmower is it? me: no its an aircraft honda mechanic: Is it line trimmer? me: no its an aircraft honda mechanic: Is it a water pump? me: no its an aircraft etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rmmm Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 FT...with all due respect....Not a pleasant tone and not at all accurate or fair. Only this year 2012 the Viking went into full production. 80 Engines sold in the latest production cycle - says the potential is not only Jan's view. If flying behind the engine qualifies as "testing", the Viking Web Site has lots of videos. http://www.vikingaircraftengines.com/news/News.html Scroll through the whole page. There are LOTS of videos and relevant information for anyone seriously studying the engine. See the thrust comparison with a Rotax 912S at Go to You Tube and check out the Viking videos - both company and owners. Jan flew a Zenith CH 750 at the Zenith 20th anniversary this year and did 30 demo flights in one day. Not sure what you mean by "myriad of servicing issues". Granted dependability is a key issue...but that applies to any engine. Proper maintenance, regular and really through inspections are critical to any engine, and that includes a Rotax. The Viking comes from the factory as a fuel injected engine, so no worries around carburetors. A huge plus. Read what the actual owner/pilots are saying. For example....Casey Lyon's Viking powered Sonex http://www.vikingaircraftengines.com/Stufftolinkto/Viking 110 Sonex Pirep.pdf A few months later - Casey's yearly conditional inspection details at 50 Hours http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Vikingaircraftengines/message/2441 Some details.....From http://www.vikingaircraftengines.com/products/Products.html AIRPLANE HOW MANY ORDERED FOR OCTOBER 2012 DELIVERY Cherry BX-2 - 1 CH-601 - 7 CH-650 - 3 CH-701 - 9 CH-750 - 9 RV-12 - 5 Sonex - 10 SeaRey - 7 SeaRey LSX - 5 Rans S-19 - 1 Just Aircraft - 6 Kit Fox 7 - 2 Kit Fox 4 - 1 Jabiru J430 - 1 Bush Caddy - 1 Dominator Gyro - 3 Sportcopter - 1 Spirit - 1 Other - 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Joy flights aren't really scientific testing are they, and this is the problem with Jan's "development" program? I remind anyone who is thinking about buying a Viking that the above list of engines sold is no indication of the engine being successfully being flown with a viking. Its merely a list of sales. Why are so many people are fronting up so much money on an untested product? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guernsey Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 me: hi my aircraft engine wont start.honda mechanic: what sort of lawnmower is it? me: no its an aircraft honda mechanic: Is it line trimmer? me: no its an aircraft honda mechanic: Is it a water pump? me: no its an aircraft etc. It's a modified reliable Honda car engine. Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Rmmm Dont worry there are a lot of people looking at this engine be it user development time or not the cost factor is very substantial so it makes it worthy of a look. FT likes to be antagonistic at times on these forums as you may have noticed but he does raise valid points ....at times (standing by to have the flame thrower applied) Jan has a bad name and it is probably worthy of it with some of his previous forays into this business but one would hope he has learned valuable lessons from those previous endeavours. The Viking core is a reliable engine and has been proved to be the only thing he does is machine the ancillary parts to make it lighter and also make the redrive unit. and this seems to be ok but only massive use will prove this as well. The other critical part is the ECU system. This is used on other aircraft and seems to be reliable he hasnt reinvented the wheel there either.. As I have stated I am looking seriously at one and keep myself updated on ALL the news I can find on the internet about them including his website. Mark 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guernsey Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Joy flights aren't really scientific testing are they, and this is the problem with Jan's "development" program?I remind anyone who is thinking about buying a Viking that the above list of engines sold is no indication of the engine being successfully being flown with a viking. Its merely a list of sales. Why are so many people are fronting up so much money on an untested product? Probably for the same reason that so many fit Subaru EA81 modified proven car engines. Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 There are a lot of good EA81 engines flying around just don't try to get more horses out of them and make sure your redrive can handle the power....the rest usually is fine 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rmmm Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 FT... the call for "scientific testing" is fair and reasonable. Time will prove out the fact. Jan's Subaru history is not a reason to write off the Viking. Many people successfully flew his conversion. Some just could not get it off the ground. So far, all indications are that Jan has put together a really fine engine with the Viking. Those that are "fronting up" are delighted. I would say that nearly 100 engines in the air is at least an "indication of the engine being successfully flown." Like I said, the engine owners are reporting really good results. Only a bit more time and we will have many Vikings with hundreds of hours on the clock. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Its early days Rmm. All the empirical evidence seems to reflect what killed Jan's Subaru business was his engines just didn't last. Too bad if in 2 yrs time if the engine jan sold you explodes its gearbox and sends the prop through your wing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 I have a friend who knows Jan well and actually got a engine (EA81b)from him and he doesn't have too much of a good word about him or his ethics back then. He told me the other day a few things which I wont repeat here in this forum but this does go back some 8 to 10 years ago at the time. I dont know FT if you watched the 3 videos Jan did in a candid interview at Oskosh this year but it was quite informative about those early days and his "mistakes" and what he did during those years. I think he has learned a lot from it but you could say a leopard doesn't change its spots I just tried to find the interviews to post the links but I can not find them anymore.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rmmm Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Here is the video interview with Jan that Kyle Comm was referring to... Very candid. To compare the Subaru Conversion with the Viking is fair game. But using the Subaru Conversion as a basis to immediately write off the Viking is....Well...simply..... not based on the Viking. Enough said. I have closely followed how Jan handles his customers. He does not have time for nonsense. If you have a question, he will respond as much as needed but not more. Try building a business, doing the engineering, managing a production line, and managing the staff, visiting air shows, responding to emails.... Then criticize Jan for being a bit terse. Everyone has to live their history. So I understand all the cautionary statements. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 I am merely concerned about the lack of testing and development. Any sort of after sales support. What do you do if the engine won't start in a remote airport. Jan's ethics are on the record for all to see, his video about his early mistakes is some interesting PR. Jan is a great salesman, good salesman don't let the facts get in the way of a sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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