Rmmm Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 More unfair rhetoric around a legitimate concern. People fly into really remote places in STOL aircraft all the time. Breakdowns do occur. As already mentioned....maintain, inspect, check, really check. One Viking owner commented on future support.....saying that except for the ECU and the PSRU everything for the Viking spare parts is available or replaceable in the open market place. The PSRU could probably be machined in a pinch to put the aircraft back in the air. So, if the ECU is really a huge worry, buy a spare and put it in your safety deposit box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 After you add in the contingencies to cover Jan moving onto another project you are easily into used Rotax money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rmmm Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 FT - 100% correct. Actually, even before those contingencies, that was the case. Budget factors are very real concerns...hence all those AeroVee and Corvair Conversions. I just had a short email exchange with Garry Morgan of Morgan Aeroworks, he suggested the same...a used Rotax. Verrry affordable. Used engines, rebuilt engines.. all ok...Not much different than buying a used airplane. Do the homework. If in doubt....walk away. Same for the Viking. Just let us keep the concerns in proper perspective and with due fairness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 I hope it works out for Jan and his customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloper Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Rmmm l have a Viking going in my Morgan Couger. Should be sitting in place in the new year. l have a contingencie plan if the ECU craps out and it goes NLA. 1: Motec ECU 2: Carby regards Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rmmm Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 FT...Thanks. I only hope to get a CH 750 built and see if my partners are willing to buy a Viking. Practically speaking, the 1,000 hour real world testing point will take a long time to reach. But if the Viking "proves" out well, it is a great boon for LSA aviation. Let us see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 No that isnt the video at all The 3 videos are just Jan sitting in a bare room on a seat drinking from a water bottle being interviews by some reporter dude. I have seen this one it is nothing like the ones I saw these were much more personal and in depth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Where Jan goes on about an alchemist turning alloy into gold and getting run out of Van's town? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 I just found the video links but they have been removed from youtube....They were not under Jan or Vikings login from memory https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbVHvHhgIX0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmPWtv5x1pQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz_NxDZIUEg They were posted in the Viking yahoo groups on the 30th of sept this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Jan is the master of PR. Once he realized that they would come back to bite him he deleted them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Well FT thats only a assumption on your behalf....I saw them and I thought they were open and honest and not contrived at all unless you actually saw them you cant comment on why they were removed. It could have been for totally different reasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 And there is a very good reason why Jan doesn't video or photograph the testing of the engines. I only watched it for about 3 minutes but it just struck me as odd that jan would release a video like that. He could make a great cult leader if he wasn't so intent on being a engine manufacturer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guernsey Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 All your criticisms of Jan may or may not be justified but I am more interested in the engine itself and as we all agree only time will tell. Many years ago I had dealings with a surgeon who was abrupt, bordering on rude, had no bedside manner and was a poor communicator, however' he was a brilliant surgeon and that is what I was looking for. Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Have a look on Jan's website you will see he is producing a bunch of new parts because the original designs didn't work properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 It is called development to make a better product.....I didn't say I endorsed the on the run method but to be honest most products are done on the run be it engines or electronics. Including the big car manufacturers just look at the recalls. I have been involved in product development you can make something and it works fine you cant break it but after the public gets their hands on it new firmware or software needs to be modified also maybe some hardware so unless you are a multi billion dollar company FT you cant afford to spend tens of millions in development. How much do you think the new Rotax 912i would have cost to get to this point it is at now....all 912 engines get updates even mine which is only 18 months old Just admit your a Jan hater...and no matter what he does be it good or bad..... you just keep flying infront of that 2 stroke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 no I am not a fan of customer based research and development. might work ok for pizza toppings but not for aviation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentreau Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 .....I have been involved in product development you can make something and it works fine you cant break it but after the public gets their hands on it .... "As soon as you make something idiot proof, they invent a better idiot" 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Have a look on Jan's website you will see he is producing a bunch of new parts because the original designs didn't work properly. f-t, you seem to be overly harsh on the Viking manufacturer. He's using a tried-and-proven engine developed by Honda with long life and efficiency in mind, using the vast resources of that company (which is likely to outstrip Jabiru, Rotax and UL Power together). The only bits from Viking are a few minor mods to the engine itself and the redrive unit. I would expect there to be ongoing development in the Viking company, just as there is within Rotax, etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 auto conversion have a ton of issues, the engine is the usually the last thing that fails. Terry Cronk died because his PSRU failed on take off. There is a laundry list of issues converting an auto engine to an aero engine. building a reliable package takes millions of dollars. Jan doesn't have millions of dollars. The honda i-vtec system which Jan turned off in his engine is a sophisticated vtec system. Jan shuts it off and still claims that his engine is making the same power. What sets off alarm bells about Jan is that he doesn't give straight answers and he is always going about how he is changing the face of aviation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffreywh Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Quote from above .............. " Jan shuts it off ( Variable Valve Timing) ) and still claims his engine is making the same power"................................ And so he should ! The Variable Valve Timing is to increase lower -mid range power at no cost to maximum power. Whilst I don't believe he is changing the face of aviation I certainly believe he is offering a brilliant solution to affordable power plants for our type of aircraft. And at approx half or less the cost of comparable units. Rotax, UL power, Jabiru ( don't take me too literally) D-motor, Continental 0-200 and Rotec and at very nearly the same or less flying weight. I really don't care who makes it if it is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 but you don't run your engine @ 6200rpm for long. most of the time your at partial throttle. and combined with that horrible intake manifold design you would see a big drop off in midrange and top end. the honda engine was pretty highly tuned to deliver 120hp out of a 1.5litres, Jan modifications can't have improved the performance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Is that donk similar to the Honda outboard 4 stroke motor ? If it is, it should run ok at high RPM. PS- I just had a look at the web site. If the women with the horns coming out of head comes with the engine. I will order one now thanks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffreywh Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Now read the website FT................. The European version (100hp) is LIMITED to 4900rpm The Australian version is rated at ( 107hp) 5400RPM .......... Obviously you don't like Jan and his products but stop spreading dis-information. People without good (automotive) mechanical engineering background might take some of it onboard..................PLUS for your information 120hp from 1,5 ltr, = highly tuned ? you are kidding right? 3 0r 4 hundred hp from 1.5ltr I would consider reasonable these days......and all day long....Get with the program Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentreau Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 ......for your information 120hp from 1,5 ltr, = highly tuned ? you are kidding right? 3 0r 4 hundred hp from 1.5ltr I would consider reasonable these days...... Interesting, you are saying that a specific output around 100HP/ltr is not highly tuned in terms of modern technology. I guess with F1 engines producing around 350 HP/ltr that is probably a reasonable statement. Elsewhere there is a discussion going on about a Swiss made engine which has been converted for aviation, and that produces 102 HP/ltr at only 6000 rpm. Some people seem to consider that to be impossible. Does the maximum rpm have an effect on the specific output ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffreywh Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Does the maximum rpm have an effect on the specific output ? Yup, if you want lots of power then you must burn lots of fuel, lots of rpm will do this. example GSXR 1300 = 180hp at 10,000rpm. and that's stock out of the box..... , the highly tuned version is something like 800hp at 20,000rpm Homi Homini Lupus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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