nig71 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 It is true, can't find the weight specs, only way to do it buy a wrecked one and hang it on some scales ;( unfortunately for me I live a long way from the wrecked vehicle auctions. On the other note though the reason we don't have many diesels probably relates to the fact that what we do have comes from the good old USA assembled by a bloke that says drives his pickup truck to work with a 6.2l v8. They didn't care about economy. If they were all designed and built by someone who drove their VW Golf I am pretty sure they would be diesel. But then I would be writing this in German ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 If they were all designed and built by someone who drove their VW Golf You know that half of all new passenger cars sold in Europe for the last 20 years are diesel don't you? - and most certainly including VW Golfs. and Polos. and Passats. and etc etc. Did you know that those Euro diesels can not pass the more stringent American (passenger car) emissions standards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 I find these days that vibration and noise makes flying (for me) much less delightful than it should. Flat sixes are much nicer than the fours. Gliding is great that way but you hear a lot of creaking and groaning going on sometimes. Turbines are smooth and thirsty and costly. Perhaps a revisit to the Wankel turbocharged . (Hard to silence and economy just a little better than a two stroke.) they use a little bit of oil too, but I think they can be reliable done right. They don't fling as many bits out the side like many other infernal combustion engines do. to make your life exciting, or shorter, Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Is it doable to have a lightish (equivalent to 100-150 hp) turbo prop that could run on either diesel or jetA1?I am not technically savvy on the possibilities of this but I would've thought something that could be run on farm diesel in the summer and jetA1 in the winter or when traveling would be a goer and especially if it was put in something in around the 750 kgs MTOW it would be well suited to rural applications. As a separate silly question. (Ok maybe a couple/few not just one more) Why don't we see small turbo props in light touring aircraft? Is it an expense issue? Wouldn't their reliability be better than a piston equivalent? Turbo prop engines typically have higher fuel consumption per hp produced than piston engines. As they scale smaller this gets worse. The term for this is the specific fuel consumption (SFC) which has units of lbs/hp/hour. Think of it this way, how many pounds of fuel does it take to 1hp for 1 hour? (there is also a metric version but lets not go there). A lower number means that the engine is more efficient. The table below shows a range of SFC for turbo prop engines. Note that there is a trend in the data where the larger engines are more efficient. It is important to note that this is due to both limits of physics and engineering. While these numbers can always be improved on it would be naive to think that a major jump in performance can occur without the development of some improved materials and production techniques and even then the increases might not be that large. Just as a bumble bee that is 1000 times bigger than a normal one wont fly, a small turboprop wont ever be efficient. Engine SFC lbs/hp/hr hp Wren 44, 2.5, 7.5 Solar T62, 1.1, 160 RR500, 0.62, 475 PT6B-36A, 0.58, 995 Say you tried to design a 100 hp turboprop and say that you could get the SFC down to 1.0. That would mean that you are burning 100lbs of fuel per hour at maximum output which is about 56l/hour. Not a cheap proposition compared to a Rotax or Jabiru.... It would sound cool though.... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nig71 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Surprising about the emissions but is that the Californian emissions , those guys are practically European in their attitudes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Surprising about the emissions but is that the Californian emissions , those guys are practically European in their attitudes 'Murica is very hard on particulate particle sizing (yes, led by Cali), 2 years ago the WHO actually agreed with them moving the European emissions particulate sizing standard from Grade 2; "possibly carcinogenic to humans", to Grade 1 "carcinogenic to humans". Meaning expect more petrol/electric hybrids in your car future. You can see here that Euro 5, current, now demands diesel particulates to be even lower than petrol engines and even harder for Euro 6 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 ... Perhaps a revisit to the Wankel turbocharged . (Hard to silence and economy just a little better than a two stroke.) they use a little bit of oil too, but I think they can be reliable done right. They don't fling as many bits out the side like many other infernal combustion engines do. to make your life exciting, or shorter, Nev I recently read of a small Wankel engine integrated into a European hybrid aircraft prototype. Sounds like the ideal setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 They have been successful in racing outboard applications. Something like the loads encountered with flying. Suggest they be liquid cooled. Nev.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 I just read on the RF News site lead-in that Superior Air Parts are going to handle the Gemini 100 2 stroke opposed piston diesel - the engine has been kicking around for many years as some may know .. http://www.experimentalaircraft.info/homebuilt-aircraft/aircraft-diesel-gemini100.php Trivial info; Note the bore and stroke of the Gemini, does anyone want to guess the bore and stroke of an 800cc Suzuki Hatch ... I know oh so well because I am using the cranks myself and I believe they are as well because you can not go larger than that bore size due to the crank's short length (originally designed as a 500cc engine). Big tuff crank too, 40mm BE and a whopping 50mm Mains for an 800cc engine! Lots of BE to Main overlap and should handle the diesel's pressures. Big money saver if they are using them at around $200 for the pair (yes, $100 for a crankshaft!). http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/High-quality-DAEWOO-MATIZ-crankshaft_1970683651.html One thing that grabbed my attention was at SAP's website claiming their new FAA certified engine ... http://www.superiorairparts.com/ ... now it's pretty darn obvious it's their Lycoming replacement parts stock coming together and in no way a new engine, I am noting that because the website before that I was reading was about the Car Show in Shanghai and a few ignorants having a field day with "China Copying" claims - if China made a Lycoming engine in the same manner, can you imagine the screams of blue murder - but I bet there won't be a mention of SAP's effort in that regard. /biitch session. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nig71 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Anybody know what the $ damage on the Gemini will be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 According to this... http://www.flyingmag.com/aircraft/lsasport/superior-launches-100-hp-diesel-engine it's "targeted at around $25,000". That's USD I presume. Sounds great but is 10kg heavier than Rotax and the same if not more $$$. The design looks very similar to something Bex was working on, IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Aero adventure www.sea-plane.com sell a suzuki based 117hp engine that looks good. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Aero adventure www.sea-plane.com sell a suzuki based 117hp engine that looks good. Oh that's good news for the light aircraft industry, a few more take this up and modern engine conversions may really start to gain ground. Looks like a Suzuki Swift M series engine btw. it's "targeted at around $25,000". That's USD I presume. Bahahaha, good one, now what's the real price? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tucano Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Seeing we are all looking at engines this arrived in my email from Flygas - No prices / No other details but it will not be cheap - low run specialized engines are generally not The weight looks good but its a UAV engine Important news from the "Made in Italy" GAS418HA, Meeting di Primavera and Website We welcome you in the first newsletter marked FLYGAS ® created to update you on news and events. After some years of planning and technical project in finally born the Flygas 4 cylinder engine “GAS418HA” for UAV flight. Entirely produced at our headquarters in Bologna this engine takes full advantage of the famous “Gas Supercharger” mechanical compressor that for the occasion turns into a two-stage compressor. The boxer 1.800 cc is so capable of delivering 132 Kw (180 hp) with weights and dimensions enviable by the main engine manufacturers. Some technical data: Capacity: 1.800 cc boxer N. cylinders: 4 opposed, (2 OHV) Bore\race: 92\68 mm Maximum power: 132kW (180 hp) @ 5800 rpm Supercharger: Dual Stage Centrifugal Compressor with mechanical control Ignition: twin spark Cooling system: water Lubrication system: 4 liters oil Alternator: 14 vdc, 25amp. Injection: Electronics (EFI) Starter: ElectricGearbox: Gears 2.2: 1 Fuel type: Unleaded Weight: 77 kg including engine starter, alternator, injection, pipes, air filter Dimensions: width: 664 mm, height: 449 mm Depth from the propeller flange: 580 mm The engine will be officially presented at the event “Meeting di Primavera 2015”, at the Eleuteri airport of Castiglione del Lago. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Bore\race: 92\68 mm Maximum power: 132kW (180 hp) @ 5800 rpm 100hp per liter, big cylinder pressures and all at 2600 feet per minute piston speed constant? Pushing the friendship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tucano Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Bore stroke / ratio about the same as a rotax 912 but is a UAV engine so I would guess that TBO might not be the issue and with dual superchargers a bit of over kill to operate at 10000 feet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Oh that's good news for the light aircraft industry, a few more take this up and modern engine conversions may really start to gain ground.Looks like a Suzuki Swift M series engine btw. Bahahaha, good one, now what's the real price? No idea, they haven't told me. The Suzuki motor is produced by "aeromomentum" (aeromomentum.com) - interesting slanted mounting position - According to their table it's only 4 pounds (under 2kg) heavier than a Jab 3300, fully water cooled and fuel injected. I'd be interested to hear reports of it in use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 No idea, they haven't told me.The Suzuki motor is produced by "aeromomentum" (aeromomentum.com) - interesting slanted mounting position - [ATTACH=full]35274[/ATTACH] According to their table it's only 4 pounds (under 2kg) heavier than a Jab 3300, fully water cooled and fuel injected. I'd be interested to hear reports of it in use. Yup that is the same engine Aero are selling with their Aventura sea plane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 The Suzuki motor is produced by "aeromomentum" (aeromomentum.com) - interesting slanted mounting position - . That's a stock Chinese mini van usage Suzuki sump setup, very common over here. http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/High-Quality-G13-engine-long-block_1801830573.html I don't understand the "1500" part though, maybe just their model name rather than the G16B 1600cc Suzy that it is (for 117hp quoted it would need to be the 1600, not the 1300 or 1500). I think the 117hp is optimistic too, none ever the less, a true 100+hp would be available and bulletproof. Setup for them by Raven I presume who have more experience at setting up Suzuki's than most put together ... http://www.raven-rotor.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 I have also been making some half serious inquiries into Toyota 1ZZ 1.8 engines for what it's worth, 100hp at 4800 rpm (145hp at 6500 rpm) and an established manufacturer keen as mustard to make (geared) redrives for them for me. The 1.8 1ZZ comes in the Corolla in Oz as well as other models all around the World. Same weight as the Suzuki but more power or lower rpms, take your choice, and of course the engines are made here. It's just a thought at this time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 That's a stock Chinese mini van usage ... Here's another minivan usage... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 While I'm rambling away today as I got a seriously stiff neck today (viagra got stuck in my throat) so not doing much, I offer this; When you look at a Jabiru engine, note the underside is nearly always a 'dog's breakfast', and creating restrictions for the airflow to be able to be negotiated with ease, I give you this Jab Vs Lyc comparison to consider for yourself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Does the Lyc setup usually go 4 into 1? Do they usually have mufflers or is it straight through? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Does the Lyc setup usually go 4 into 1? Do they usually have mufflers or is it straight through? Scott. Scott me buggered, doesn't change the Jab's somewhat restrictive setup though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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