kaz3g Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Control the risk better by not doing it, especially down low. Even CASA's display rules state that engines are to be kept running.I must ask the insurance company for their view... I agree DJP. I can't see the sense in deliberately choosing to turn the whole thing off and perform a deadstick landing no matter how good you are. The performance difference between a windmilling prop and a stopped prop is not all that significant and, if you want to see what that's like, you can do it above 3000'. Shock cooling is also something to be considered. Lot's of aero engines take exception to shock cooling and few of the aircraft flown by members of this forum will have cowl flaps I have nearly 750 flights in my GFA logbook, including about 60 hours in motor gliders (with cowl flaps), so I know what it's like to land engine off and without engine at all. I can also recount an episode in a C150 flown by my then mustering pilot many years ago. He pulled the mixture at altitude and the prop just kep on turning for what seemed like several minutes. It didn't stop until he lifted the nose and slowed to almost stalling speed. He then went mixture rich and pushed the nose down picking up around 85 knots before flattening our quite smartly. It wasn't until we leveled off that the prop then kicked over and started the engine again. Oh, outside air temp was around 45C so there wasn't a huge shock effect to worry about on that occasion. kaz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne T Mathews Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Wayne it's time you got a starter motor! Why? The armstrong one I've got works a treat... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poteroo Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 For me, it's about risk reduction. I don't do the deadstick bit with students because you have to allow so much 'margin' in the exercise, (for the students possible miscalculation), that it defeats the initial purpose. For PFL training, I do take it down to 'over-the-fence' level, but only because I know the paddocks, and I am (very) low level qualified. You need a warmed, and responsive, engine to do this. I have little faith in engine re-starts in flight. Back when I did my initial multi-engine - we used to shut down an engine, complete the approach, land and then restart on taxy. Bloody brave we were. CASA have since stopped this practice. Without unfeathering accumulators, the average starter motor isn't that reliable. I have indelible memories of shutting down a C55 Baron engine to show my wide-eyed children in 1973 - but then couldn't restart the sod! Very embarrassing! happy days, 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballpoint 246niner Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 I'm sure some do........one of our helicopter instructors was telling me how when he was a student, there were times when his instructor would hand over the a/c, then climb over the back ( I think he was in a Huey), then start punching him. I had a gliding instructor once- who used to undo the wingnut clamp of the rear control stick in a bergfalke training glider and if my airspeed went below 50 kts in cct, he'd release it and with a sometimes not so gentle tap on the cap yell"50KNOTS". In todays cotton wool society that seems draconian but guess what I never forgot how important airspeed was. Maybe it's one reason why I'm still flying forty years later, and hopefully for another forty( well maybe not!)but many more I hope.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Although it might have been very effective in impressing something on your mind, understanding something is far more permanent. I have had guys in the right seat write down something I have just explained and My response is, forget the actual numbers, remember the principles. Numbers only relate to a specific situation. Ask someone what the stall/ approach speed is for their aeroplane and they will give you a book figure. What if the weight is lighter/heavier than normal? What if it is gusty? Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naremman Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 For PFL training, I do take it down to 'over-the-fence' level, but only because I know the paddocks, and I am (very) low level qualified. You need a warmed, and responsive, engine to do this. Gee Ralph, you have just set my mind at rest seeing tomorrow morning I am fronting up for a AFR with you. Hopefully, happy days tomorrow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Why? The armstrong one I've got works a treat... He was trying to be diplomatic. It's not that it's your ugly bald head! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 For PFL training, I do take it down to 'over-the-fence' level, but only because I know the paddocks, and I am (very) low level qualified. You need a warmed, and responsive, engine to do this.Gee Ralph, you have just set my mind at rest seeing tomorrow morning I am fronting up for a AFR with you. Hopefully, happy days tomorrow! Beware, Don't trust him! especially now he knows you've been reading this thread! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne T Mathews Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 He was trying to be diplomatic. It's not that it's your ugly bald head! Hang on! That wasn't me in the picture. That was some other old 20s style dude. They made 'em turff back in them there days, eh? And not a flower, or Kaftan, in sight. Hehehe. Be afraid Turbz... Be very afraid... :peepwall: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Hang on! That wasn't me in the picture. That was some other old 20s style dude. They made 'em turff back in them there days, eh? And not a flower, or Kaftan, in sight. Hehehe. Be afraid Turbz... Be very afraid... :peepwall: Gunnedah's a Looong way away Wayne. They were very casual in those heady days. Jimmy Doolittle got into trouble for climbing out and sitting on the axle while his friend made a landing........in sight of a senior officer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballpoint 246niner Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Although it might have been very effective in impressing something on your mind, understanding something is far more permanent. I have had guys in the right seat write down something I have just explained and My response is, forget the actual numbers, remember the principles. Numbers only relate to a specific situation. Ask someone what the stall/ approach speed is for their aeroplane and they will give you a book figure. What if the weight is lighter/heavier than normal? What if it is gusty? Nev Spot on Nev, I teach the same- fly the plane, understand it and feel it! Numbers are like boundary fences, they contain but don't control what goes on inside. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayavner Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Sorry, i know this thread is old, but I just laughed out loud reading this... but I will already have (a) crapped myself and (b) be looking for a big patch of grass. ... and the first thing that came to mind.... I really gotta get out more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Sorry, i know this thread is old, but I just laughed out loud reading this... ... and the first thing that came to mind.... I really gotta get out more... The animal world's equivalent of a tail wheel aircraft 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now