motzartmerv Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 If you are not concerned, then why did you change your post to read "under the cloud". I have serious doubts that ANY CFI woud condone flying through cloud. The conclusions were drawn from your origina post. I dont care how you discovered your rudder aileron issue, the fact is you had an issue. Deadly pilot attitudes are easy to spot by those who know what to look for. Expect a letter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 I know of a couple of pilots who regularly fly IFR in RAA aircraft with no formal qualification and probably many more do it because it is hard to get caught red handed. I give up.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerme Posted September 2, 2012 Author Share Posted September 2, 2012 If you are not concerned, then why did you change your post to read "under the cloud".I have serious doubts that ANY CFI woud condone flying through cloud. The conclusions were drawn from your origina post. I dont care how you discovered your rudder aileron issue, the fact is you had an issue. Deadly pilot attitudes are easy to spot by those who know what to look for. Expect a letter. as I re read it I realised how the conclusions where be made by how I had miss worded it and I wanted to be clear..I learnt a very valuble lesson ,and will avoid all cloud and fog,flying is a learning curve and as long as we do learn and I did.! I landed emediatly and sat at the aifield for 6 /1/2 hours,the cloud left but sun was out and could see thermals so waited for the heat to drop and continued in clear sky. a wiser pilot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 I give up.... Don't give up-get mad-then convert the guilty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 So that's two States that badly need CASA to step in with audits then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Ok. So just to confirm. You originally said you flew threw the cloud, got cold, etc. Then changed your post to tell a different story, then posted your amusement at how we had drawn conclusions ??? Do I have that right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winsor68 Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 I think we need to keep in mind that Flyerme may not be expressing himself as well as he would in person... this Internet is a very impersonal tool and it is easy to struggle to convey your meaning accurately in my experience. I hope this is the case... BUT... I still do think you should listen to some of the advice Flyerme and here is why...... I too have been concerned about your ferry flight with your new Lightwing based upon following your posts in the last few weeks. We really are looking out for you by saying this mate... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerme Posted September 2, 2012 Author Share Posted September 2, 2012 I think we need to keep in mind that Flyerme may not be expressing himself as well as he would in person... this Internet is a very impersonal tool and it is easy to struggle to convey your meaning accurately in my experience. I hope this is the case...BUT... I still do think you should listen to some of the advice Flyerme and here is why...... I too have been concerned about your ferry flight with your new Lightwing based upon following your posts in the last few weeks. We really are looking out for you by saying this mate... agree winsor 100 %, all organised to fly her home in the morning but weather just updated and 10kn x wind on my little strip....No thanks ,,rest of week going to be wild here so will go down with more tie downs and remove tarps (wind on tarps = bad paint job) yep flying is truely NOT for the impatient.had a lovely Fathers Day picnic at the airfield,,awesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J170 Owner Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Just to be pedantic - 70 knots is 129.64kph not 146 as you stated in your original post (kph = knots * 1.852). So, what happens at Sherlock? Remember to call into Gawler for a coffee on a Saturday sometime, less than an hour away as we are great bunch and treat everybody as equals, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J170 Owner Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 I think we need to keep in mind that Flyerme may not be expressing himself as well as he would in person... this Internet is a very impersonal tool and it is easy to struggle to convey your meaning accurately in my experience. I hope this is the case... A true statement, body language and voice 'inflections' contribute about 80% of the meaning of what we say. I can tell a mate to get stuffed without offending him because he hears the tone and sees the smile. I tell somebody that via this forum and could possible end up with a horses head in my bed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerme Posted September 2, 2012 Author Share Posted September 2, 2012 Just to be pedantic - 70 knots is 129.64kph not 146 as you stated in your original post (kph = knots * 1.852). So, what happens at Sherlock? Remember to call into Gawler for a coffee on a Saturday sometime, less than an hour away as we are great bunch and treat everybody as equalsthermals were insane and never encounted such brute force before,as the runways is so long i felt its better and safer for me to get her down by doing a 180 as the sock was dead,looked so inviting to ..yeh fell for that trap,,but lesson learned.hence why i then waited another 4 hours.. anyway so landed with a tail wind/gust as after I was watching the dead sock and it was blowing every now and again in different directions., I suspect thermal not wind but not sure? was a greased wheeler too,surly that accounts for somthing? lol take it easy guys oh 146kms on the gps as I came over the thresh hold then after I rounded I glanced at the asi 70kts so held off a little then put her down on the mains and ran for about 3-400mtrs,,approach was asi 60knts but in the rough air was jumping up and down.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldo Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 FMe what concerns me most about this situation is that you sound as though you are blissfully unaware of the potential danger that you have placed yourself in, 15 miles @ 2500 and you could see the airstrip I don't think so (I went out flying for a couple of hours this afternoon in perfect conditions @ 2500 and I was a lot closer than 15 miles before I could see the airstrip and it is one I fly from daily, so I know exactly where to look). I'm also a little concerned that your CFI agrees with your course of action any CFI who condones decent through fog/cloud (I'm not sure what it was any more) probably needs a visit from RAA and CASA as well. The other thing is that you have gotten away with it once what will you do next time "ah it's only a bit of cloud it'll be ok" and this is a very real human tendency and if you continue with this attitude it will kill you. No-one here is trying to stop you enjoying your flying, just stop and think what could I have done better to make this a safer flight. Good pilots evaluate every flight they make, it's what makes them better. We all make mistakes and we all like to think we are better than we actually are but if you don't learn from your previous flights then you have no business being in an aircraft of any type. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerme Posted September 2, 2012 Author Share Posted September 2, 2012 F FMe what concerns me most about this situation is that you sound as though you are blissfully unaware of the potential danger that you have placed yourself in, 15 miles @ 2500 and you could see the airstrip I don't think so (I went out flying for a couple of hours this afternoon in perfect conditions @ 2500 and I was a lot closer than 15 miles before I could see the airstrip and it is one I fly from daily, so I know exactly where to look). I'm also a little concerned that your CFI agrees with your course of action any CFI who condones decent through fog/cloud (I'm not sure what it was any more) probably needs a visit from RAA and CASA as well.The other thing is that you have gotten away with it once what will you do next time "ah it's only a bit of cloud it'll be ok" and this is a very real human tendency and if you continue with this attitude it will kill you. No-one here is trying to stop you enjoying your flying, just stop and think what could I have done better to make this a safer flight. Good pilots evaluate every flight they make, it's what makes them better. We all make mistakes and we all like to think we are better than we actually are but if you don't learn from your previous flights then you have no business being in an aircraft of any type.[/quot I was scared out of my brain, was told if encounter some fog fly above it, wich I did not.I thought it was some fog lifting but as I got closer I realised it was a cloud I killed power and decended to 1500 on the way down it got cold and seen some fuzz float bye I headed for the runway shaking like a leaf and happy to be on the ground,I emediatly rang my CFI and told him what happened,my last check was 15nm (may have been closer not long after I called 10nm out)to go and I could see the air field as its the only dusty paddock in a sea of green crops in the distance ,I had picked out earlier and was using it for feature nav,lesson was learnt and will contiue my early morning calm clear flights.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirsty Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Getting closer Tim. Make sure you bring your new plane out to YMBD sometime to give us a look (and maybe take me for a fly?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerme Posted September 2, 2012 Author Share Posted September 2, 2012 Getting closer Tim. Make sure you bring your new plane out to YMBD sometime to give us a look (and maybe take me for a fly?). yeh will do,looks like it will be stuck out at pinnaroo for a whil as we got some nasty stuff coming.could have got it home this arvo but apperently No flying on fathers day? take it easy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirsty Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Looking good for tomorrow. Wanna go bring it home? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Yeah right, let him die, better to get good stories. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Metalman, there are 2 aspects to this. You have mentioned a way to address this off thread, but what about the fact that something is now published that needs to be considered. A poster must realise that the subject has been thrown out there for comment for the benefit of ANYBODY who visits this site. Flyerme hasn't been victimised, and a lot of well intentioned people have made useful comments as they have frequently on flyerme's previous posts. He would be a bit foolish to ignore them. That is one of the functions and virtues of this site. Surely your comments are a bit over the top. I have read them a few times and don't feel that what you have said truly represents the situation or the intention of most if not ALL the responses. If I post something that is incorrect I would expect to be answerable for it. That is the nature of this place, and that is how it should be..Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 1. Unfortunately the original post has been changed so it isn't possible for anyone now to see the seriousness of what actually happened, and why the urgent response. 2. Don't think for a minute that what you read was all that was going on, and that good people were not trying to help. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 What you said was this: "Welcome to Internet forums flyer, as you may have learned , never post about aerobatics, spins, clouds, mistakes of any kind or the abysmal engine in the front of Jabiru aircraft. Good to hear it worked out and you'll have her home soon, Met" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnm Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 good conversation and thread ................. its interesting how you can read some comments and initially you can disagree with a view point ......... but further on you can end up agreeing with it whether you are in error or not Flyerme (regarding them clouds) - thanks for the thread - you've created a good safety conversation ........................... and we all learn from that (or we are reminded what we have learnt) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldo Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Met The original post was significantly different to the one that is there now, which is what prompted most of the discussion. FMe in a response to me said he had the pants scared off him (or something to that effect) so that is a good thing. What concerned me (with the original post) was the apparent unawareness of how dangerous the situation was that he had gotten himself into and something to the effect of "I always wanted to fly through cloud but didn't realise how cold it was". I think FMe understands now why the responses were as they were. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 I have responded to many of the topics you mentioned and I do it for a reason. I guess your comment is having a go at people like me who somehow (you suggest) don't have the right to tell it like it is. ( If someone can be offended). I have to reject that. First of all I have never attempted to offend anyone, but it can happen because there is a tendency to take things personally, regardless of how it is said. Some people can be very thin skinned... Also, because of the strong element of safety involved.( and is the point I address constantly). There's no other reason. The best outcome for the pilot in question would be to be a safe operator, and be receptive to a bit of advice. Only he and his instructor know what he has been taught. The real issues here have not been covered yet. If no-one wants to then I won't be doing it.. Bringing up the safety thing might be boring for some, but there are times where it just jumps out at you. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Given the "never post about aerobatics, spins, clouds, mistakes of any kind" comment, I think you should Nev because there will be a lot of new guys who haven't come across the issues, or haven't been correctly instructed about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petetheprinta Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 gee that seems so extreme,,,nothing in between, just burn him publicly or let him die!there are usually one of two ways these types of things are approached, method one ( the more popular one it seems) a pilot makes an error of some sort, lets say, flying in something that may be considered less than VMC or perhaps its a bit more choppy than some would be comfortable with,he makes a post on an aviation forum telling all what has happened, suddenly there is the sound of creaky armchairs and aero club stools,,the mad tapping of keyboards ,posts are flying to and fro, our less than perfect aviator is hammered,,,burned,,,,beaten near to submission with his own confession! The result,,he slinks away thinking "what am I doing here, these guys are to damn perfect for me ,,,I cant even spell as gooder as them,,,I'll just slink away to some little backwater and do my own thing! method two, the same scenario,,,a stuff up has happened,,,some pilots with a bit more experience( ones who have made similar mistakes and lived to learn from them) get in touch with the said pilot and help him to see what he's done can be very serious, perhaps recommend someone who could have a qualified input into their skills set,,,maybe even befriend the unlearned one and allow their own safety culture to rub off,,,, Now I ask ya,,,which one of these methods would be more likely to have a positive effect on a newbie , and which one would make the bar room aviator feel good, personally, if someone spoke to me face to face the way some of the keyboard heroes do on forums ,,,I'll leave it at that, on the other hand I've had some great pilots take the time to help me develop my own safety culture and personal minimums/maximums with out making me feel like a dips##t in front of a crowd luv ya Met Hear hear well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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