facthunter Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Also even though the plane is pressurised the cabin altitude may have been around 8,000'. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howard Hughes Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Yea there's something amiss with the story. The problem is that he was asleep for 13 minutes and he left his level without a clearance.(according to the report)So was the autopilot on? If it was and commenced a descent, then it would have been on NAV hold, and not altitude hold.. Correct me if im wrong (HH) . Im not sure what NAV would need to be selected for it to commence a decent, and for 13 minutes?? And that far out? Not an ILS surely, Flight director may do it with certain settings (I guess) So... Was the autopilot on? If it wasnt, then how did the acft descend "under control" for 13 minutes? If it was on, what caused it to commence decent? When I first read the story I dismissed the quote regarding altitude loss as probably not accurate, given that it said something like "deviated from its assigned altitude". It would depend which Kingair he was flying at the time as to how this would come about, if it was an older (non Proline 21 equipped) aircraft, it would not leave its assigned altitude without multiple inputs from the pilot, or alternately the flight nurse may have accidentally disengaged the autopilot while attending the pilot (possible, but not probable). If it were a Proline 21 equipped aircraft, it is possible that the aircraft was set up for descent with VNAV (vertical navigation) armed for descent a considerable distance prior to top of descent, however in order for the aircraft to descend the assigned altitude indicator needs to be selected to a lower level. Now once again it is possible that centre gave him a clearance to descend many miles prior to top of descent (this quite often happens at night where you are the only aircraft for many hundreds of miles), however once again I would think this scenario is possible but not probable. With the little information we have it is impossible to know the full story, anything we say is mostly hypothetical, as has been evidenced in the multitude of posts on this thread. All we really know for sure is that someone tested positive to a drug test and has subsequently been dismissed. I suspect those making the decision had all the information at hand and made the correct decision, if they didn't we'll be hearing more about this story in the future. For now the only thing keeping this story alive is this thread and perhaps it's time for us to let it die a natural death! Cheers, HH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howard Hughes Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Exactly...So much doesn't fit....Meth is an UPPER..Not a downer.. I would just like to add, without fail just as in aviation, a down always follows an up! And a sleep caused by a down would be the type of sleep where you can't be woken, anyone who just nods off from tiredness would be in a light 'REM' type sleep, which should (in theory) shoud be easy to be woken from. That's it I'll shut up now, you guys just keep sucking me into the vortex!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 lol, welcome to the vortex Howard. The 'UP' required to produce that sort of "down" would be a pretty full on ride. And flying a kite would be impossible in that state, IMHO. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 There are only a few drugs that when used to excess, the symptoms can be hidden easily. Weed is one of them. With some clear eyes applied the afflicted person could get away with it without being noticed. Coke is another one, inspite of earlier comments from another forumite, Coke can be consumed and the user hide the symptoms relatively easily. Thats why these two drugs are quite common and prevalent amongst people who work, 9 to 5 (for example) and manage to hide the fact that they are chronic drug users. With a bit of practise and exposure you can learn to spot them, but its certainly not obvious. Meth, Speed, Heroin and the like, are not easily hidden. The typical side effects of a someone on Meth would be, teeth grinding, jaw clenching, vacant eyes, momentary lapses in cognitive ability, ie, zoning out for a few seconds and then returning to an awake state and being unaware of the 'lost time', chronic skin itching, picking at the skin etc. Slurred and slow speech. Hyper activeness, ie, cant sit still..Muscle twitching. And those are just some of the 'outward' symptoms that we can see. Users describe the feeling of being totally detached from their bodies. Floating etc. feelings of grandeur, waves of euphoria and phsycodelic type hallucinations, where they don't see things that aren there, but rather see normal things in a weird state. It would be near on impossible for anyone to hide all these symptoms, climb in a kingair, get it airborne and then hit the 'come down' stage without being noticed.Agian, IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nong Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Anyway, I miss the days when pilots knew how to hold their piss and drugs. Geez, the rule was simple enough. If ya couldn't climb into the aircraft, you couldn't fly. Failed that test, myself, on at least one occasion. If you were lucky enough to fly a Sabre in the RAAF, as was a previous colleague, all ya had to do was put the mask on and go to full oxygen..... No more hangover. For an ag pilot, flying a long day with a hangover was its own punishment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Yea I reckon..Nothing but pussies these days hey.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planet47 Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Maybe he was overcome with tiredness after a session on the stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djpacro Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 .. all ya had to do was put the mask on and go to full oxygen ... outside loops have a similar effect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dutchroll Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 ........the pilot should be named and shamed and given a length of rope and a chair. Pretty offensive to those who know someone who has committed suicide by hanging themselves. Like the pilot in my company who did exactly that in his hotel room a while back after suffering severe depression for some time. You should probably be more careful how you word things....... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winsor68 Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Pretty offensive to those who know someone who has committed suicide by hanging themselves. Like the pilot in my company who did exactly that in his hotel room a while back after suffering severe depression for some time.You should probably be more careful how you word things....... Extremism has become a massive problem in Australia over the last 10 years... In many parts of the culture (Nth Qld for example) this sort of attitude is pretty much standard in smoko rooms... The really ironic thing is the "members" of our society who have fallen to this mind set are usually the ones who are contributing to the decline with their blind ignorance and lack of empathy.... and their calls to stamp out "extremism" ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J170 Owner Posted November 28, 2012 Author Share Posted November 28, 2012 Extremism has become a massive problem in Australia over the last 10 years... In many parts of the culture (Nth Qld for example) this sort of attitude is pretty much standard in smoko rooms... The really ironic thing is the "members" of our society who have fallen to this mind set are usually the ones who are contributing to the decline with their blind ignorance and lack of empathy.... and their calls to stamp out "extremism" ... Yea, too true.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 The last RFDS Pilot I saw was named Charlie White, it was in a black and white TV show here in England in the very late 1950s, called ( strangely enough ) "Flying Doctor". . . . can't remember who actually played the Doc,. . . some Aussie film star I guess. . . . but the Aircraft.,. . . .now THAT really was the star of the show, it was a DeHavilland Drover, with three Gypsy MAjor engines and a TAILWHEEL, what a lovely looking aeroplane !!!! Charlie White never got drunk or drugged up in all except one of the scripts, so what's the matter with the new breed ??????? I agree with a couple of earlier posters, let's not lynch the pilot of the Kingair in question, there REALLY COULD be some reason why he tested positive for one drug, after perhaps taking a cocktail of standard pharmaceuticals for a bloody cold or something. ( Remember. . . this happens a lot with althletics drug tests ?? . . . . I don't know may pilots who would jeopardize a career by being totally stupid with regard to the intake of an unusual and illegal substance whilst on duty, and, apart from one Korean pilot I met once, many years ago. . . . who had a propensity not to fly "Solo" without his supply of scotch whisky,. . . . I would have thought that deliberate substance abuse amongst commercial pilots must be a rarity surely ???. ( Hic ) Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 ADMISSION. . . . On my qualifying cross country flight test from Berwick to Deniliquin,. . . . I fell asleep at the controls for at least some time, not sure how long, . . it was a very hot day, and when I suddenly awoke in horror the old 172 was still coasting along happily, although I had gained about 2,000 feet, my egg sandwiches, on the right hand seat had all dried and curled up, I had not had a drink for two days, and was not on drugs. I was, however not sure of position, but, as anyone who flew from a Southerly direction into Deniliquin in the 70s will agree, there is a large area of forestry, which comes to a "point" just South of the airfield, so my Instructor (Alan Basket ) told me during the preflight. I was able to use this to find where the hell I was. This flight frightened the hell out of me, and I've never come close to falling asleep since, no matter how relaxing the flight might be, unless I'm sitting in the back of an Airbus with a cup of cocoa. The only thing which brightened my day at Deniliquin was the lady who climbed up the little stepladder to refuel the 172, wearing a short leather miniskirt, but that's another story. . . . . and MOST DEFINITELY off topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 I would have thought that deliberate substance abuse amongst commercial pilots must be a rarity surely ???. The only thing which brightened my day at Deniliquin was the lady who climbed up the little stepladder to refuel the 172, wearing a short leather miniskirt, but that's another story. . . . . and MOST DEFINITELY off topic. I knew an Ansett or TAA pilot at a gliding club. He always looked sloshed, even before the bar opened. And, off topic stuff is usually the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 OK Sapphire ( Sorry bloke ( or bloke-ette) I don't have your personal handle. . . . I'm certain I know a couple of airline jockeys who look pissed at the flying club too,. . . .must go with the territory, but are you saying that by definition they are like that when on duty, ?? As I said before, I have only flown as P2 with ONE definite "pisshead" but I have to admit that he never displayed ANYTHING other than total professionalism and devotion to his duties whilst he was actually flying . . . . there was one rather unusual emergency in particular when we had to offload cargo due to an engine failure whilst actually still flying at night. . . . . But that's another story, and WELL off topic. In my experience as a p2 cargo pilot, I never saw any of my captains under the influence of anything other than a complete and total duty of care, to the company, the passengers ( if any ) and the cargo, plus anyone on the ground who had anything to do with our aircraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 I am sure they usually perform ok as pilots. Though there are cases of drunks pilots being dragged off planes. The last I heard was a female pilot who was reported by the cabin crew. I guess I am lucky, I can't stand the stuff; though I have uncontrolled urges for other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methusala Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 G'day All, I've just read this thread and I am surprised that the reference to "a length of rope and a chair", was not quickly moderated off the site! I have had posts removed that have stated far less objectionable opinions. That anyone should suggest that suicide can be the solution for any problem is outrageous. This quickly set the scene for more reptilian behavior when a poster calling himself a member of the 5th estate sat in judgement on the actions of a professional pilot which were reported in a news article. The quality of argument provided by our more esteemed and reflective members highlighted the tawdry and squalid behavior of those who wished to summarily dismiss the RFDS pilot's rights to fairness. It is to be hoped that this obvious trolling shall not be repeated on this great site. Regards, Don 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 G'day All, I've just read this thread and I am surprised that the reference to "a length of rope and a chair", was not quickly moderated off the site! I have had posts removed that have stated far less objectionable opinions. That anyone should suggest that suicide can be the solution for any problem is outrageous. This quickly set the scene for more reptilian behavior when a poster calling himself a member of the 5th estate sat in judgement on the actions of a professional pilot which were reported in a news article. The quality of argument provided by our more esteemed and reflective members highlighted the tawdry and squalid behavior of those who wished to summarily dismiss the RFDS pilot's rights to fairness. It is to be hoped that this obvious trolling shall not be repeated on this great site. Regards, Don double gulp [i'll go hide in the swamp] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methusala Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I don't think that I am being particularly thin skinned or "precious" about this. I am surprised that, in our flying activity where death can intrude prematurely and most cruelly, suicide can be treated in a callous and thoughtless post. *Gulp* if you think that is the most appropriate response! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mal Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 As a professional safety person who holds a current drug testing qualification I might take this opportunity to provide some useful information: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 YES? ..... Nev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 gulp here-think I am missing something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandit12 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 As a Victorian and former Queenslander, I would also like to take this opportunity to provide some useful information: 2. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentreau Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 As a whinging Pom with a masters degree in taking the p1ss, I would like to take this opportunity to provide nothing of value. 0.00. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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