motzartmerv Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Glider pilots do it with stick control, power pilots do it with throttle control, and car drivers do it with no control:yelrotflmao: I dunno about that, every engine failure ive ever had, the throttle didnt do sh@t!!! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 We are talking about normal conditions Motz........ Though what you are going through seems to be becoming "normal" for you. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted November 22, 2012 Author Share Posted November 22, 2012 The yank guy flew Mustangs in combat; he and Chuck Yeager used to race each other along the sage brush tracks around Edwards Air Force Base (Muroc) leaving prop marks in the sand. IMO the best pilot in the world. However Human Factors wasn't his best subject - he smashed up at least 20 aircraft, many after making silly mistakes, all reported truthfully in his biography. he also admitted to an "excessive number of deadstick landings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted November 22, 2012 Author Share Posted November 22, 2012 This is the sort of thing that made Bob Hoover stand out above us all: He was flying an Aero Commander Shrike (twin engine - the one he did the glass of water trick in) After a normal take off he sensed something was not right, even though all the gauges were showing normal (part of the Hoover genius) There were ravines ahead and it was too far back to the airport. During his cross-country Mustang flights he'd often worked out how he would handle a situation like this and had built a plan into his subconscious. This is his story from his Book "Forever Flying": "Recalling those thoughts I dumped the nose of the Shrike, I kept my best glide speed until I reached the very end of the ravine. Landing in the bottom of the canyon meant no survival. Our only chance was to pull up and land on the side of the ravine. "As my airspeed bled off, I dropped the landing gear and flaps. I wanted to be at a minimum forward speedon impact. The landing gear would cushion the impact along with the tires and struts before the impact hit us square on. "I was down in a V-shaped ravine. A thousand feet wide at the top, it narrowed down to nothing at the bottom. I went right to the bottom to maintain the best glide speed. I then pulled the plane up and landed into the side of the ravine. I didn't travel very far at all before I hit a rock pile that caved in the nose. The instrument panel was torn out of its mounts and dropped down on my shins. "Neither of my passengers was hurt, but there was one fatality. We ran over a rattlesnake with the belly of the airplane when the gear tore out from underneath it." Reason for the crash?; the aircraft had been refueled with Jet Fuel instead of petrol.....................................another one for HF. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 The practice required would be too expensive for me to do a good job YennII recall a pilot from Williamtown ( near Newcastle ) dead sticked a Sabre or Mirage into the airstrip at Tomago. In windy conditions due to the high trees each side it was a bit of a challenge anyhow . He did a brilliant job and put it down undamaged but was severly reprimanded for not parachuting out of it. In single engined aircraft the only thing that gets you where you are going is the engine keeping going. This sounds pretty obvious, but how sure can you be? Earlier the word was.. "Don't fly over what you can't land on". Perhaps more applicable to two strokes, but valid for all single engined aircraft facthunter, I think you need to edit your post. you accidentally typed "two strokes" instead of "Jabiru". Today's Two strokes are as reliable as any other type of engine. Kiwi. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Yampy Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Slightly off topic here , but didn't Bob Hoover do that same routine at one of the Avalon Air Shows a few years ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Today's Two strokes are as reliable as any other type of engine. Kiwi. Yea, for 300 hours. ;) Then ya gotta rebuild or get a newbie. ;) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Yea, for 300 hours. ;) Then ya gotta rebuild or get a newbie. ;) How's your fleet going ? Kiwi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted November 22, 2012 Author Share Posted November 22, 2012 Slightly off topic here , but didn't Bob Hoover do that same routine at one of the Avalon Air Shows a few years ago? I saw him do his "energy management routine" at Avalon just after he'd been granted an Australian Pilot's Licence. From memory that consisted of a low pass, climb, 1 engine cut, dive to get energy then a loop on the one engine, 2nd engine cut, some funny business, dead stick landing possibly on 1 wheel and a long roll to stop with the prop spinner virtually in the hand of one of his ground. Some pilot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 How's your fleet going ?Kiwi My only 2 stroke is out of hours at 300, so no training in it..;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Slightly off topic here , but didn't Bob Hoover do that same routine at one of the Avalon Air Shows a few years ago? I watched Bob Hoover do aero's at Archerfield in the earlier nineties in a a Shrike commander as well.It was about the time that the FAA would not let him renew his licence due to age. So he came here & got checked out by a CASA inspector, passed no worries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 My only 2 stroke is out of hours at 300, so no training in it..;) You can still fly your 2 stroke for private flying after 300 hours. (to keep yourself flying while your training fleet is getting rebuilt) Kiwi. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilotdave69 Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Just saw the Kathrysn reports photos.. think he did well to get it down, good on him using the chute. I know the guy who took the photos, works for Essential Energy, wonder if he was near power lines .. They walked away, a good result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Here is a question. You have an engine failure over doubtful terrain. Could you glide in to as close a landing as possible and pull the big red handle, to use the chute to stop your froward speed at just above ground level? I imagine the plane would stop its forward momentum and thenpivot around the chute until it fell back on its tail. Anyone got any better ideas? According to the manual, this a recomended use of the Galaxy chute in my aircraft. If forced to use a landing area too small to land normally, deploy the chute 2-3 feet above the ground and at normal speed for the hold off phase of landing and the chute will act like a big airbrake. I would think twice about doing it on a windy day as I would be worried about being dragged along by the chute. There is no release mechanism for these things, once deployed you go where the chute goes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 You can still fly your 2 stroke for private flying after 300 hours. (to keep yourself flying while your training fleet is getting rebuilt)Kiwi. Oh I get it now. A jab bash. Yea all my jabs are in the air mate;) flyin in controlled airspace, around the harbour bridge and opera house today actually :) try getting a clearance of that with you blue head;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Isaac Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Easy Motz, in VH experimental Drifter. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Oh I get it now. A jab bash. Yea all my jabs are in the air mate;) flyin in controlled airspace, around the harbour bridge and opera house today actually :) try getting a clearance of that with you blue head;) You missed my point in post#30, If someone comments on the reliability of Jabiru engines, you have 10 people agreeing with you and 10 people criticizing you. Whenever engine reliability is discussed on a thread not even related to 2 strokes, someone always questions the reliability of two strokes. ps. If I wanted to fly in controlled airspace, all I need to do is a GA BFR and renew my medical, then I can fly my certified 2 stroke Drifter anywhere you can fly your aircraft. Kiwi. (Not a "jab basher") 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 If you fly the plane YOU are in control. If you deploy the Chute you put yourself in the lap of the gods. The ballistic chute is not the answer to all problems with flight as a pill is not the answer to every ill. It has a place and the individual will make his/her decision. If the wings are still there they are better than a chute as far as I'm concerned, because YOU have control over where the plane goes... Nev 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Oop's I forgot to add "And buy a Transponder" Kiwi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 You can still fly your 2 stroke for private flying after 300 hours. (to keep yourself flying while your training fleet is getting rebuilt)Kiwi. I've hear of 800 hrs on those engines. For aviation purposes they recommend 300 hrs but if you are savy with engines, managed them correctly, and don't fly over tiger county, I think you can give yourself a tbo dispensation. Conrod wear can be measured through the spark plug hole and keep track of compression with a leak down test regularily. There are probably other test you can do yourself which are never advertised by the manufacturer. The best thing I like about two strokes is they don't have valves and produce more power for their weight. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 , (Not a "jab basher") Thats ok, I am the biggest jab basher, and also their biggest fan. Some mornings i wake up, i wanna bash MYSELF...! But serious;y, i dont think anyone argues the reliability of 2 strokes is on par with four strokes. Its simple science really. That being said, we have a jab powered bantam online, and its flown the same way the 2 stroke version is.....As if its about to stop..;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Talking about parachutes that don't behave as expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 They DO produce more power for their weight but Rotax only make one of all the different model engines they used to. Funny that people insist that a jabiru "must" go for many hours without the heads coming off and a "top" being done. which is in exces of the total legal life of a 582. Legally a two stroke is not airworthy after 300 hours' I am not bashing two strokes. I have worked in them for most of my life, but the best way to "fix" one with 400 hours on it is to replace it. IF you have flat paddocks around you why not keep flying it till it dies? Fine if you can. The number of people out there who understand them and can properly operate them is diminishing rapidly. It's becoming a lost art. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Thats ok, I am the biggest jab basher, and also their biggest fan. Some mornings i wake up, i wanna bash MYSELF...!But serious;y, i dont think anyone argues the reliability of 2 strokes is on par with four strokes. Its simple science really. That being said, we have a jab powered bantam online, and its flown the same way the 2 stroke version is.....As if its about to stop..;) I fly all aircraft the same. I did my last BFR with Paul from "The Recreational Flying Company" at Gympie in a Foxbat. I nearly S*%t myself at howfar out I needed to be before turning base. (still landed halfway down the strip) Kiwi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Talking about parachutes that don't behave as expected. That dude needs an old priest and a young priest, that things possessed..!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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