motzartmerv Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 (still landed halfway down the strip)Kiwi. Probably cause you fly them all the same...;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I The practice required would be too expensive for me to do a good job YennII recall a pilot from Williamtown ( near Newcastle ) dead sticked a Sabre or Mirage into the airstrip at Tomago. In windy conditions due to the high trees each side it was a bit of a challenge anyhow . He did a brilliant job and put it down undamaged but was severly reprimanded for not parachuting out of it. In single engined aircraft the only thing that gets you where you are going is the engine keeping going. This sounds pretty obvious, but how sure can you be? Earlier the word was.. "Don't fly over what you can't land on". Perhaps more applicable to two strokes, but valid for all single engined aircraft I remember when that happened; I believe it was a Mirage. Impressive work, but I can understand the reprimand, given that training the pilot probably cost more than a new Mirage. Just been on Google Earth, but can't find an airstrip at Tomago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 It's near Cautaulds. Just south of the main highway before the bridge at Hexam. Maybe it's not in use now but I used to regularly go there to pick up pax (Charter) Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 It's near Cautaulds. Just south of the main highway before the bridge at Hexam. Maybe it's not in use now but I used to regularly go there to pick up pax (Charter) Nev Still can't see it. Do you have Lat/Long? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Probably a housing estate on it now. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Talking about parachutes that don't behave as expected. So true. I installed a BRS and plan to use only as a last resort if the aircraft is unflyable. BRS claims a descent speed of 7m/sec. Add the extra weight we all accumulate, swinging all over the shop out of control and your arrival is not going to be gentle. A nose-down attitude is essential so that the UC and nose absorb most of the impact. Flying into the crash and stalling into vegetation may not be any worse. A farmer mate prefers landing on roads; he's seen and felt the texture of cultivated paddocks that look ideal from a distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunder Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 motz is probably correct. OK, roads look good but have wires over them and vehicles going along them .Tthey can ruin your day. That parachute thing looks like the person is immobilised. It shouldn't go on and on Too windy anyhow...Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 OK, roads look good but have wires over them and vehicles going along them .They can ruin your day. True, but I have driven over paddocks that look smooth from above...rough as guts in car, so a little plane isn't going to like it. Perhaps better maintenance (prevention) and training is the solution. Someone on the forum put me onto this great resource: (especially relevant is Lesson 6. Forced Landings) http://www.flybetter.com.au/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/Flybetterbooktwo2ndedition.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 There's a lot of good stuff there ( Fly better), but a suitable landing field doesn't have to be that smooth. Damage at relatively low speed is rarely life threatening. Some say regarding the turn back after take off . Keep going to the hospital, Turn Back to the morgue. A simplification I know but you get the drift. The choice is often the lesser of two evils.. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 The chute landing video is quite amazing. Having done around 400 jumps on round chutes both civilian and Army, I can sympathize with the bloke. Initially it looks like he got caught with a willy willy, then it just kept going on and on. He obviously wasn't taught how to collapse a chute once on the ground, which is not hard to do at all, you just grab a handfull of lines or risers and pull them in. This method is very effective. Then his mates go chasing him and miss good opportunities to also grab and collapse the chute. Bet he was sore in the morning !!... Scaryest bit was when the willy willy actually lifted him into the air again !!... I once got caught in a big thermal on a round chute west of Sydney, in the middle of summer. We were jumping at a site near Douglas park, west of Camden. The descent was normal until I just stopped descending at around 1200 Ft and just parked over the top of a small clump of trees. I watch the others with me land normally, pick up their chutes and walk to their cars. They say I was 'parked' in the one spot for over 12 minutes , before finally descending normally to the ground........................................Maj... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 On the way back from Natfly earlier this year we landed in the Lightwing at Dubbo, and found a crack in one exhaust pipe. The only hangar open belonged to a gentleman with a very fine silver Cirrus. He and his family went out of their way to assist us, and we were airborne again in a couple of hours. The aircraft today was heading to Dubbo from Emerald, and I'm wondering if it's the same people and aircraft. Further on the subject of Cirruses and their chutes. I find that by studying incidents mainly in the US, that they are a good idea that is far from perfect. There have been many failures due to the deployment speeds being too high, with the resulting separation of the chute from the aircraft. The max deployment speed is a lot lower than the speeds that the planes are exiting from cloud, after the non-IFR pilots have lost control !!.. There was also one incident with an in-flight fire, and chute deployment. The occupants were dead and the plane destroyed by the fire before it landed under the chute. Another where the aircraft landed under the chute in very rocky terrain, and in very high desert winds. The occupants were killed after being dragged over the rocks by the chute which they couldn't release or collapse. I flew for about 12 years in the 80s and 90s with a ballistic chute on my UL, as did many others. We worked out that we would use it for : structural failure, control failure or as an alternate to a forced landing in very inhospitable terrain. I don't believe we ever saw it as an alternative to a normal dead-stick landing over open country. Happy todays incident ended well though........................................................Maj... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Further on the subject of Cirruses and their chutes.....Maj... These stories need a wide audience. A BRS is not a simple fix for all emergencies. Cirrus aircraft have a tiny notice behind the rear window warning of their rocket-launched parachute. That is the only indication of a potentially lethal weapon on board. When making my training video for rescue squads (which still has not made it to the intended audience) I got footage of several aircraft in one maintenance hangar. I'm sure that the bloke in charge had no idea the Cirrus had a BRS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 FH said: The number of people out there who understand them and can properly operate them is diminishing rapidly. Ok Nev, is there anything else not covered to help me "understand" my two stroke? Actually there was an issue with my 447. Was told that if you pull back the power back too much [eg on final] the exhaust gas temps go up, which it does. So i was doing long long finals skimming over trees way out. Then I read that the low volume of overheated exhaust gas would not be a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Talking about parachutes that don't behave as expected. Next time I bet that guy will bring along a knife. It will also come in handy to cut the parachute [just a joke] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Im guessing but towards the end he was merely a sack of wheat being dragged around.......think he was unconscious. For those that are experienced (im not) can you pull on risers and collapse a round one when its fully inflated as it was? if it can lift you off the ground I wonder if you could really pull the risers in? (on a round one) I suppose on a flying wing style parachute its just a case of getting the wing to stall.... Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I wonder if the pilot and owner was the John Nixon from Nixon Communications...he would be older than 41 more like 60 I would think but he would have at least 2000 hrs. He sold that company early this year for many multi millions of dollars but was involved a lot in mining comms....John preferred 206 aircraft but he could afford a cirrus after he sold that part of the company. John flew his staff from the base in Gladstone to jobs all over australia he did a lot of flying and as far as I know still does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I wonder if the pilot and owner was the John Nixon from Nixon Communications...he would be older than 41 more like 60 I would think but he would have at least 2000 hrs. He sold that company early this year for many multi millions of dollars but was involved a lot in mining comms....John preferred 206 aircraft but he could afford a cirrus after he sold that part of the company. John would not slum it in a Cirrus . He owns an Eclipse jet that is still in the USA as he can't make the time to go over and fly it home. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Mick you obviously know John...I have met him several times at dealer conferences and supply stuff for the Rocky branch although of course he doesn't own them anymore. I know he kept the linked transportable repeater side of the business and thought maybe he was doing something with thatespecially with Emerald being one of the points. Well he has a enough money now to buy a jet for sure 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Talking about parachutes that don't behave as expected. I dunno about it being a fail.He got to practise multiple landings from only one jump. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 So i was doing long long finals skimming over trees way out. In a 2stroke? Your braver man than me. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 I dunno about it being a fail.He got to practise multiple landings from only one jump. Ive got an idea for a new craze-attach bungy cords instead of lines to the parachute and attach a pogo stick to each leg. Plan for half a day before you settle to the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 sapphire . the high egt's are normal for low throttle openings, and temp and heat energy are a differet thing A factor with long glides with pre-mix is lack of lubricant, as with virtually no fuel going through there is little oil as well. This is off topic so PM me if you wish. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poteroo Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 What on earth are you Instructors out there teaching (or not teaching);you don't teach forced landings any more? Hell yes - we're teaching engine idling work just as much today as 40 years ago. Probably more so with a certain make of aircraft! The problem is with blind blind acceptance of new technologies. Think about the use of GPS - if the magenta line fails, for whatever reason, a lot of pilots are in trouble because they have not kept current on the basics of navigation. All very good at it on the day of your test - but never used it in the 10 years since! No matter how 'hot' your aircraft might be - there is a procedure for the engine out situation, and if you have any reasonable paddock,road,beach or clearing under you - that's where you aim. It requires constant practice. Many pilots tend to fly too fast for the aircraft weight. Remember that you fly for a Vref that's going to be Vs x 1.3 or 1.2 if competent. Vs varies with gross weight - so don't blindly follow the book figures which are predicated on gross. It will usually be safe to fly it slower - get some practice!! Talk to your instructor and learn how to determine your correct approach speeds for the glide. happy days 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted November 23, 2012 Author Share Posted November 23, 2012 When you say "we're" it seems that some aren't else how can you account for Sapphire's statement? I certainly couldn't fault the RA forced landing training - the procedure was much the same as GA, but there seems to be different levels of training in different geographical areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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