MarcK Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 I have been reading these forums for a while now and there seems to be a lot of Jab bashing going on. Now I have noticed myself in the RAA Members Market you see a lot of airframe 400 hrs new motor type listings. I have done a couple of hours in a jab and didn't mind flying it at all and there seems to be quite a few around that are affordable. So 1. Are they really that bad ? 2. If they are as bad as people make out what do you all think causes the issues they have and are the problems manageable? 3. Do they have any other big problems All opinions welcome I would love to here from Jab drivers seeing they trust these things with there life. Thanks Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentreau Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 I can't comment from personal experience, but the fact that you see lots of those type of adverts must tell you something.... P.S. I think the term "Jab-bashing" should be avoided. It turns sensible technical discussions, generally based on facts, into emotive arguments. . 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 It's also very offensive. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Jabirus are so common, why would you buy something that you can rent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Marc, there are several post on this forum that have delt with the various re-occuring mechanical issues with that engine, over a long period of time now. It would probabily be wise on your part to peruse those posts, before asking the question "are they really that bad ?".....there is a lot of good imput there, by lots of Jab owners and others..........................................................Maj... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king_daniels Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 I have been reading these forums for a while now and there seems to be a lot of Jab bashing going on. Now I have noticed myself in the RAA Members Market you see a lot of airframe 400 hrs new motor type listings. I have done a couple of hours in a jab and didn't mind flying it at all and there seems to be quite a few around that are affordable. So1. Are they really that bad ? 2. If they are as bad as people make out what do you all think causes the issues they have and are the problems manageable? 3. Do they have any other big problems All opinions welcome I would love to here from Jab drivers seeing they trust these things with there life. Thanks Marc No, they are very good and reliable. I have done almost 1200 hours in my aircraft with the same motor. Most people I know that have Jabirus have had littel or no problems with them as well, I think the secret with the Jabiru motor is regular service by mechanics that know the motor. In my experience, some people who have trouble with Jabiru motors are doing their own servicing or lack of and they are not Jabiru experts. I also get excellent service from the Jabiru factory in Bundaberg. Daniel 1 1 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultralights Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 after being in the flying school game for almost 10 yrs now, i would not operate a jabiru powered aircraft. the airframes are great, they fly well, are great trainers, nice long legged cruisers in the J230, but the engines, well, you said it yourself, look at the adverts, 400hrs TTIS, engine new, or near new. compared to other brands.. Savannah TTIS 1200 hrs, engine 1200 hrs. still going strong. come to think of it, the 6 cyl seams to hold up a little better than the 4. if people find jab bashing offensive, then that is their opinion, but just from casual observation over the years, i would trust their airframes to the end of the earth, engines, not so much. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Just to clarify my earlier statement, the TERM "Jab Basher" is offensive, particularly when referring to posts from people qualified to make them, and where firm evidence is quoted. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compulsion Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 My j170 had first engine 1000 hrs. Second engine now 400 hours with no problems. Adelaide Soaring Club is getting 1000 hrs out of their school aircraft engines. Service and oil filter change every 25 hrs. Only my experience. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcK Posted February 2, 2013 Author Share Posted February 2, 2013 Turboplaner Hi is was not wanting to sound offensive with the term Jab Bashing at all but from my perspective that's what I see in some posts. And seeing those adds tells me that I need to be educated in the subject Gentreau I think a little bit of emotive argument as you say isn't always a bad thing either. Isn't the reason most of us that try to get in the air at great cost is passion for the flying. Seeing someone defend there opinion with a little emotion is a good thing. Maj Thanks for the reply and I do try to read back through the threads when I can but I always seem to get stuck on the humour pages. It is a forum after all this site seems to get a heap of new members so rehashing topics that have been discussed before can't be that much of a sin can it ? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausadvance Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Oh no, not this subject again! 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloper Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Goodaye all Simple, do you trust your life to a Jab engine? regards Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcK Posted February 2, 2013 Author Share Posted February 2, 2013 Bruce thanks for the reply. Thats what I am trying to work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 keep researching. You will find the problems. Some of the engines make 1000 hrs, some even make 1500 hrs. But they are the exception rather than the rule in my experience. You will hear alot of " oh, you just need to know how to maintain them".. Which of course is true for any engine, but not a valid argument and certainly supported by evidence with regard to Jabiru engines. LAME maintained engines fail, rotax, lycoming, rolls ro bloody royce all fail. I dont think there is ANY argument, that the problem is a DESIGN issue. Poor maintenance will cause problems with all machinery. I have yet met a LAME, L2, mechanic, dentist, vet, garbage man, who has looked under the hood of a jab and said, wow, what a great idea....;) 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webbm Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Goodaye allSimple, do you trust your life to a Jab engine? regards Bruce I don't trust my life on any engine... 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcK Posted February 2, 2013 Author Share Posted February 2, 2013 On a slightly less controversial note ice pilots is on 7 mate at 8:30 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloper Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Yeh there's a add break. regards bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 I personally have two main reasons for not supporting Jab engines........................ 1. After I and about 60 other flyers gave them initial start-up support with the initial 1600 engine, they dropped us all like a greasy brick when the 2200 came out. Just didn't want to hear about the 1600 any more...there was no factory support, and they haven't been known for going out of their way with support for their customer since. Sorry but that burned a lot of people, and pissed quite a few off. 2. As an unlimited Level 2 maintainer how can I justify maintenance on any engine that has a demonstrated reliability problem, and suffers from proper lack of support from the manufacturer ?....knowing that despite my best efforts and experienced (continous aircraft maintenance since 1968 on many types) the damn thing may fail anyway, without any imput from me. And who would they blame in that case ?...you guessed it. From a moral and liability point of view, it just makes more sense to instead work on engines only with a known reliability history, which I am happy to do. Don't have any dramas with anyone selecting a Jab engine to fly with. If that's your thing..knock yourself out ! ......................................................................Maj... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Error404 Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 The best maintenance in the world won't necessarily guarantee a Jabiru engine running to TBO. As stated earlier, it would seem that the only ones that do, are the exception. there is a lot to know. The ones that made tbo, were they solid or hydraulic, old or new pistons, old or new nuts etc etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggles5128 Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Don't rely on stated TBO figures, spend a little insurance money and rip the heads off at 300hrs and you will sleep better. Just as well they are no where near as costly to do that as say a Rotax. Some will argue that that should not be necessary with todays engines, however if you do this, you will in my opinion be giving yourself the best chance of not having to make an unscheduled landing in a paddock, or worse. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spriteah Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 I have a Jab 2200 in one plane and and a lycomming in another. I would fly the Lycomming to Tasmania I would not fly the Jab to Tassie. I had a problem with the JAB (valve failed) at 100 hours. Factory had no time for me except to charge me for the parts. Jabs are cheap. Just don't plan on a high level of support if it fails. I love the airframes. Rotax options would be fantastic. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 rip the heads off at 300hrs and you will sleep better. And jab will happily blame ANY engine issue after this on YOU doing non recommended work... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damkia Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 I think it comes down to the "Bathtub Curve" of reliability ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathtub_curve ). They do seem to have a vertically raised "Early Failure" curve, and some of the failure modes have been noted to be terminal (in flight complete loss of engine power). Having said that, there are some that manage to get past this part of the curve and will last into the 1000-1500 hrs before needing a full overhaul. The Jabiru stated TBO of 2000hrs is optimistic - based on estimated general longevity figures (from RA-Aus magazine) they should go into "on condition" at about 600-1000hrs. The fact that Jabiru do not make their failure rate/mode known (nor is it readily available from RA-Aus in tabular form - nor for any other make of engine either...) does not increase confidence in their product in my book. The only way is to go back through the RA-Aus magazine and try to get a feel for how many, and how they failed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Quote..biggles5128.... spend a little insurance money and rip the heads off at 300hrs and you will sleep better. Just as well they are no where near as costly to do that as say a Rotax. Simply wouldn't need to do that with a 912 at 300 hours , and most likely wouldn't need to till 2000 hrs TBO !.......................................................Maj... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloper Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 l think there is a reason the Viking has mounts in the Jab position. regards Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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