Phil Perry Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 Howard,What's that saying about flying at night...... "If you don't like what you see, turn the lights off" or something like that. Sqn Leader Lofty Mason ( Raaf cartographer Retired) told me that he'd heard that serving fighter and light bomber pilots were trained so that if they had a total flameout at night, they would dive for the ground and turn on the landing lights. If they didn't like what they saw, then they'd just turn off the lights. Sounds very similar don't it ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 When starting I found it bizarre how the regulations are a mish-mash of feet, metres, miles and the odd kilometre. Mostly gotten used to it now, perhaps forgetting some of them helped. They do mix the SI units a bit don't they, ?. . . Apparently, the reason that the UK attempt at a Mars mission with a little robot lander was that they got mixed up between "Metres per second" and Feet per second on the atmosphere entry and the poor thing more than likely burnt up in the Martian atmosphere. . . . . I notice on "Discovery" tv programmes here that ANYTHING to do with aviation always uses Metres for Altitude / height / Flight level / vertical displacement above mean ground level. . . whereas FEET are the I.C.A.O. accepted units for international flight operations. . . . . strange that innit ? dyer think they're tryin to brainwash us ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 You just KNOW you're only a weekend pilot when. . . . . You admit to doing something a bit stupid,. . . . .and nearly everyone on the forum calls you a" - - - - - - - -" ( fill in space with appropriate comment ( ! ) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalman Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Was at the aeroclub the other night when someone mentioned inadvertantly flying into a cloud, WTF, was it chasing you around the sky cause your meant to be either 5000-8000 metres away from it ( he was above 3k) so either he was doing crap he should or these things are on the hunt for us,,,,, be careful out there folks you could be a target for a cloud with a grudge! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 Was at the aeroclub the other night when someone mentioned inadvertantly flying into a cloud, WTF, was it chasing you around the sky cause your meant to be either 5000-8000 metres away from it ( he was above 3k) so either he was doing crap he should or these things are on the hunt for us,,,,, be careful out there folks you could be a target for a cloud with a grudge! Geez Met,. . . . . gotta remember to take me tape measure next time I goes fleigen . . . . . them clouds are little buggers and can catch yer unawares. . . . . Seriously though mate,. . . if you can mange to stay out of it, then more power to yer elbow and good luck. Especially if you're flying around that Melbourne place. . . ! My good mate Dave Squirrell ( ex melbourne flyer ) once said, there's three kinds of pilots. . . . the ones who fly desks, the ones who have not had an inadvertant cloud jobbie, and finally,. . . those who are going to . . . at some point in their happy pastime . . . . Then, and ONLY then, can one wag the finger with experience. ( if you happen to survive the encounter of course !! ) LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayavner Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 .... your family and friends no longer care that you are "supposed to go solo" this weekend, as its been one thing after another to conspire against it for 6-8 months and you suspect they are now just dismissing you with a wanking motion. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 .... your family and friends no longer care that you are "supposed to go solo" this weekend, as its been one thing after another to conspire against it for 6-8 months and you suspect they are now just dismissing you with a wanking motion. Ohhhh Dear,. . . . . I had this from my girlfriend and her Mum before I finally went solo in the helicopter. . . . so I can truly feel your P A I N my boy. . . . ! But I was in the army then and it was all by letter. They just couldn't understand my frustration ! ! ! ! ! All I got was. . . " Who wants to fly on their own ? Bit boring aint it ?? nobody to talk to. . . . . " Out of the mouths of babes. . . . . . . ! they really DON'T understand us mate. . . . . Anyway, I didn't see the wanknig bit, we didn't have SKYPE back then ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark11 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 "You Just KNOW you're only a weekend pilot when . . . . " When your trike looks brand new (and is 10 years old), new looking flying suits, full set if pumpkin patch covers, has a compass, artificial horizon (just invase), has two GoPros and a DSLR camera mount and only 82 hours on the engine & wing! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 When your trike looks brand new (and is 10 years old), new looking flying suits, full set if pumpkin patch covers, has a compass, artificial horizon (just invase), has two GoPros and a DSLR camera mount and only 82 hours on the engine & wing! Mark,. . . Mark. . . . .You just MUST get out and fly more, . . . my trike used to look new but it now looks like it has just about survived 2 tours in Afghanistan. . . . . and it's only done 1034 hours ! ! ! Get yerself into the sky man . . . ! wear it out a bit . That's an order. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 When your trike looks brand new (and is 10 years old), new looking flying suits, full set if pumpkin patch covers, has a compass, artificial horizon (just invase), has two GoPros and a DSLR camera mount and only 82 hours on the engine & wing! Just a quick question Mark,. . . you mentioned your"Just incase" AH, where the heck did they put the sensor unit ? it's got to be in the wing somewhere surely, it would be the only sensible place, there are not any trikes in the UK equipped with Artificial Horizon Gyros as far as I know. ( probably are, but not admitting to it as it isn't allowed !!! ) I've seen a beauty made by AVEO instruments in the Czech Republic, ( USA owned ) and this unit had a 6 function multi switcheable display, including a very accurate Gyro Horizon,. . . I saw it at an LAA fly in a couple of years ago. I know it's accurate because I tested one myself for a few days in a three axis aircraft, and it's the dog's danglies. . . . . I don't know anyone who has an example fitted though, the sensor unit weighs about .9 kilos and is quite small, ie 180 x 60 x 60 mm. I'm not sure if that model went into production. Be genuinely interested to know how yours works in a trike, AND where you got it from ! ! !. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Off Topic: Phil...please note that you can click "Reply" on each post on a single page that you want to reply to and they all come up as quotes in a single post that can contain your replies instead of replying to each post individually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 Off Topic: Phil...please note that you can click "Reply" on each post on a single page that you want to reply to and they all come up as quotes in a single post that can contain your replies instead of replying to each post individually AAAAAHHHHH ! Driving lessons. Thanks Ian, I'd seen this before but was unsure of how to do it. Thanks Boss !! Kind regards, Phil P. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalman Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Geez Met,. . . . . gotta remember to take me tape measure next time I goes fleigen . . . . . them clouds are little buggers and can catch yer unawares. . . . .Seriously though mate,. . . if you can mange to stay out of it, then more power to yer elbow and good luck. Especially if you're flying around that Melbourne place. . . ! My good mate Dave Squirrell ( ex melbourne flyer ) once said, there's three kinds of pilots. . . . the ones who fly desks, the ones who have not had an inadvertant cloud jobbie, and finally,. . . those who are going to . . . at some point in their happy pastime . . . . Then, and ONLY then, can one wag the finger with experience. ( if you happen to survive the encounter of course !! ) LOL oh, I never said the sneaky buggers hadn't got at me ,,,once,,, got the stained undies to prove it,,thats how I know their shifty tactics, seriously, I let myself get there and it wasn't inadvertant, it was a stupid mistake and I was lucky rather than skilled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 oh, I never said the sneaky buggers hadn't got at me ,,,once,,, got the stained undies to prove it,,thats how I know their shifty tactics,seriously, I let myself get there and it wasn't inadvertant, it was a stupid mistake and I was lucky rather than skilled Hey Met. . . . the more commercial and confident you get, . . . then the more you get caught out by simple daftness and lack of awareness . . . . .when it really ought to be the opposite. . . BTDT we recently lost a current airline jockey who flew into a slate quarry with some mates, flying a light aircraft in bad viz. . . . Why ? . . . . wouldn't have a clue.. . . neither has anyone else. . . . FBC ? Familiarity breeding contempt, ?? Dunno. But it just keeps on happening mate. Sad. Stay safe. Phil 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M61A1 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 " Who wants to fly on their own ? Bit boring aint it ?? nobody to talk to. . . . . " ! Although I love taking my daughter out in a Drifter, I have found that I enjoy the solitude, similarly to riding my bike. I was going to fit an intercom on the bike when I started taking my wife on it, but decided not to. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Especially when you are supposed to have 5Nm (Australia) clear vision before you whack it............................ Yes, sorry, it's 5 kilometres, not 5 nm - still plenty of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 A pillion ruins a bike. I don't fly planes alone much. I love training people. It gives purpose to a way of life, and someone else gets the benefit of the arranged experience. Really interactive. . Better than carrying potatoes or such that you feel anyone could have done and there would be no difference in the outcome. Perhaps serious gliding might be the exception. sailing is much the same. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark11 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Just a quick question Mark,. . . you mentioned your"Just incase" AH, where the heck did they put the sensor unit ? it's got to be in the wing somewhere surely, it would be the only sensible place, there are not any trikes in the UK equipped with Artificial Horizon Gyros as far as I know. ( probably are, but not admitting to it as it isn't allowed !!! )I've seen a beauty made by AVEO instruments in the Czech Republic, ( USA owned ) and this unit had a 6 function multi switcheable display, including a very accurate Gyro Horizon,. . . I saw it at an LAA fly in a couple of years ago. I know it's accurate because I tested one myself for a few days in a three axis aircraft, and it's the dog's danglies. . . . . I don't know anyone who has an example fitted though, the sensor unit weighs about .9 kilos and is quite small, ie 180 x 60 x 60 mm. I'm not sure if that model went into production. Be genuinely interested to know how yours works in a trike, AND where you got it from ! ! !. Phil Hi Phil, I don't have an artificial horizon fitted ... I was just suggesting that "weekend" hobbists at any sport / hobby tend to overdo everything and gave the best of everything... Although my trike is 10 yrs old, has 84 hours on wing and base, is like new, I don't yet have the Pumpkin Patch covers, the GoPros or the DSLR mount! As soon as I get my WSPL I will be flying at every opportunity... The trike had 82 hrs when I bought it from Airborne! Regards Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howard Hughes Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Errr, . . .No Howard, they don't work like that although I can see where you're coming from if you have not flown them. Like I said, I know nothing of trikes! We've even ( seriously ) had a guy here in the UK who reckons he can use his Iphone with the Guiness beer glass app stuck on his trike panel, and he says he can fly in cloud by keeping the beer level. Now that's an 'idea's man'! Off Topic: Phil...please note that you can click "Reply" on each post on a single page that you want to reply to and they all come up as quotes in a single post that can contain your replies instead of replying to each post individually You're right, great tip! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooda Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Sqn Leader Lofty Mason ( Raaf cartographer Retired) Wonder if that's the same Lofty Mason who helped teach me to fly at Kyneton in the early 70's. To the RAAF he was(then) a nav but not a pilot, to the DCA he was a pilot but not a nav. Bureaucracy - ya gotta love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyvulcan Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Yes, sorry, it's 5 kilometres, not 5 nm - still plenty of time. Actually, the 5km is the visibility criteria for VMC, not the separation requirement from cloud while flying in VMC. Below 3000' you only need to be "clear of cloud", but above 3000' you need to be 1500m horizontally clear of cloud plus have the required vertical separation. (Reference Page 221 of the Visual Flight Rules Guide) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Actually, the 5km is the visibility criteria for VMC, not the separation requirement from cloud while flying in VMC. Below 3000' you only need to be "clear of cloud", but above 3000' you need to be 1500m horizontally clear of cloud plus have the required vertical separation. (Reference Page 221 of the Visual Flight Rules Guide) Actually it's two lots of requirements together, but you can't see through cloud so you can't get closer to cloud on your track than 5 km. Previously the regulation was 500 feet clear above and below with no forward restriction. If the cloud ceiling remained constant you could fly long distances at 500' agl, but if the weather closed in ahead you had very little warning to allow you to turn around. The survivors, perhaps 1 in 10, told some hair raising stories of almost instant white out, and the new regualtions (well a few years old now) guarantee you a couple of minutes to get yourself turned around in time, and you get the scare earlier. Google Visual Flight Rules Guide and there's a diagramme on page 222. The regulation becomes more stringent above 3000' and more stringent again above 10,000' 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyvulcan Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Turbo, I think you will find that the visibility requirement is along your "intended flight path". So if I am cruising along at say 2000' amsl and I see two small fluffy Cu clouds ahead, separated by say 1000m, but my intended flight path is straight up the middle of them, and I have 10km visibility straight between them along my intended flight path, then I can legally pass between those clouds with only 500m horizontal separation from each. I am complying with my minimum visibility along my intended flight path of 5000m, and I am also complying with the VFR separation minima applicable below 3000'amsl to be "clear of cloud" (note that no distances are stipulated in the regs, only the requirement to be "clear of cloud"). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Have a look at the VFG diagramme - we are saying is the same thing. I couldn't see the 5000 metres being put on that diagramme if it wasn't covered by a CAR - but it is to the cloud face, not to an imaginary clear line between two clouds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyvulcan Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Yes, we are using the same correct reference but we have a different interpretation of the information in that reference. By way of an example, if an aircraft is lined up for takeoff at an airfield where the met report indicates CAVOK, but there is that small fluffy Cu with a base of 500'agl, tops at 3000' but it is sitting 4000m away, directly on centreline. There are no other clouds in the sky anywhere. Can we not takeoff and legally operate VFR because as soon as we get airborne, we will be within 5000m of that little cloud? The term CAVOK indicates a visibility greater than 10km, so VMC must prevail. An airfield can be CAVOK with scattered cloud being present, but with the visibility being greater than 10km. So the presence of cloud within 5000m does not necessarily reflect in the visibility measurement. Therefore, when CAVOK is reported, flight under the VFR is legal, as long as you remain "clear of cloud" while operating in those VMC conditions. "Clear of cloud" means exactly that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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