To go light or not?

[AZNA]

Hey guys,

 

Im at a bit of crossroad at the moment on what to do with my flying.

 

I am around 3-5 Hours off from doing my GFPT at Moorabbin and as i have just purchased my first house with my wife funds are tighter.

 

As much as i would like a career in aviation it is unrealistic so ill take the next best option and fly for fun!

 

So my question is;

 

Do i stay GA and legg it out untill i get my GFPT , but then when it comes to NAVs i will be in a bigger plane and that means more $$$ ($300ish).

 

Or do i jump ship now and go RAA and save money? at the moment its just me and the wife so 2 seats is fine.

 

To Compare money of where i am and where i can go.

 

Cessna 152 - D: $259 S:$180

 

Cessna 172 - D: $295 S: $240

 

Jabiru J160 - D$199 S: $142

 

Any help, coments would be great

 

 

[lark]

Every one will have an opinion. However if you only have a few hours to GFPT, why not finish that off and think about it from there? At least then you will have the GFPT which ever way you go. Just a suggestion. Guess it depends what you want out of aviation

 

 

[Bandit12]

So my question is;

Do i stay GA and legg it out untill i get my GFPT , but then when it comes to NAVs i will be in a bigger plane and that means more $$$ ($300ish).

Don't forget that doing NAVs doesn't automatically mean that you have to move up to the 172. There is no reason why you can't do it in a 152. While the same route may take you slightly longer than in the 172, I suspect the end cost will still be a little less.

 

Be aware that it will be a little more cramped, but a 152 is more than capable of doing the cross country with ease. I knew a couple of guys who went back to the 152 to build hours for a CPL, as for the same dollar amount they got more hours.

 

 

[Doug Evans]

well that a question only u could answer ...

 

but in saying that I would go raa for the cost and if u so wish u can all ways step up to ga if so inclinded in the future there is no diffrence in the training apart from cost and the aircraft of today most can be rego ethe way EG : GA `Raa so with a bit of air time in a ga u can jump across ether way ......

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Hey mate. If your that close to a GFPT then I would reccomend sticking it out and getting the GFPT. You can always do your navs and RAA conversion simultaneously in the Jab, and remember those Nav hours will count should you wish to get a PPL at a later stage.

 

GFPT would allow you to take friends in the cessnas, while the RAA nav endorsement would allow you to take the misses on trips around the country side:) Win Win.

 

Cheers

 

 

[biggles5128]

And don't forget if you ever need to venture into CTA either transiting or landing, the only way is is you have at least a PPL. It may be some time before these privileges are granted to strictly RAA.

 

 

[turboplanner]

What Motz says as far as getting the GFPT.

 

Then look at your situation:

 

Do you want to carry more than one passenger on cross country flights? (or in some cases even 1 pax) - then spreadsheet the hire rates, the cruise speeds, the fuel burn and relate that back to a cost per person/nmile. If you want to do long trips it could be that a cross country GA with high cruise speed will be the least expensive.

 

GA gives you a bigger more reliable engine

 

If you just want to hire now and then, bringing your recency up to a safe level is going to cost you money.

 

Some people suggest this might be about five hours on a Jab to 45 minutes in a Cherokee; I'd suggest it's closer to eight because of the lower inertia, so that can quickly wipe off any advantage of the lower cost per hour on the RA aircraft. The good part about that comparison is that you can try it out for yourself, and you'll then be able to do the cost comparison.

 

 

[old man emu]

My suggestion is to go for the perceived higher qualification in whatever you do in Life. I'm not meaning to demean an RAA pilot's certificate in any way by that "perceived higher qualification" comment.

 

There is no law that says that you can't fly as an RAA certificate holder using the standards that apply to a GA licence. With only a couple of hours to go, you'd be throwing good money away if you didn't stay the course. The optimum situation would be to complete your training on a GA registered Jabiru, then you'll have your RAA conversion done and your GFPT as well.

 

OME

 

 

[fly_tornado]

I would do a proper budget and work out how much money you have to spend. Once you have your budget and there for your flying allowance, your choices will be a lot simpler.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

If your an "Average Australian" then at your stage of life I suspect you flying will be limited to youtube and living vicariously through others.....Down track a bit when the salary $$ have lifted with life experience, ideally at a rate faster than the kids can consume them.....then perhaps you'll revisit........

 

And now for the glass half full view....a PPL can always play in RAAus with a little bit of expenditure....and RAAus cant play in PPL land without a lot of expenditure.....The question is, what will be your Return on investment if you spend the extra $ now

 

Andy

 

 

[greybeard]

FWIW, I've got a PPL and haven't flown for a number of years. I'm now getting back into things again. I compared RAA and doing an AFR and enabling my PPL. If you take into account the annual cost of RAA pilot certificate against two yearly class 2 medical there's not much in it and I get forced into going to the Doctor every couple of years to see if I'm still alive :)

 

Yes, flying costs are typically greater in GA, but I've got a lot more choice of hire in GA than for RAA in Western Australia.

 

Comes down to if you can afford the $'s to complete your GFPT now or not. It'd take you a while ( read $'s ) to get back into it and relearn to do the GFPT after being away from things for a number of years.

 

I skipped the GFPT and went straight through for my PPL ( did it in a total of 43 hours ). I was taking lessons at least weekly though, as well as burning through some money :).

 

If I had the money, I'd do the GFPT now. But only you know your financial situation.

 

 

[rgmwa]

Being so close, I'd say finish the GFPT. Then look at your budget, and since you are flying for fun using hard-earned dollars, see where you can get best value for money. Hopefully your wife will go along with your plans - she may have other ideas on how the money should be spent.

 

rgmwa

 

 

[AZNA]

Thanks for all the input guys

 

I think ill stick it out for the GFPT and see why happens.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

thought about a PPC instead of an small plane?

 

 

[Keenaviator]

thought about a PPC instead of an small plane?

He may actually want to got places by air!

 

 

[fly_tornado]

take the car if you need to get to places, fly for fun.

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

thought about a PPC instead of an small plane?

A Prop Pitch Control? I know I'm late to the thread, but as others have said, if you are that close finish the GFPT!

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Powered Para Chute or a Powered Para Glider, the cheapest way to experience powered flight.

 

 

[68volksy]

Just be aware that there's a lot more to that question than cost. Whilst RA-Aus have done some brilliant marketing over the years there is a lot more to the decision than simply dollars. The maintenance standards of RA-Aus aircraft are probably the most relaxed area. Word is that a flying school recently had its entire fleet of RA-Aus aircraft grounded on inspection by CASA for being unairworthy. They'd been merrily training students in one aircraft with an engine 1,000 hours overdue i'm told. Whilst this could happen in GA it's almost impossible with the checks and strict liability provisions on LAME's.

 

That's just an example of one possible difference. There are a lot of good, honest RA-Aus schools and hire aircraft but the maintenance and training standards between them all is unbelievable once you start looking into things. There's a lot of variation in the GA schools and hire aircraft also of course.

 

It starts at the philosophical level really for me. A GA aircraft was designed to a standard of "how strong does this need to be" whilst modern RA-Aus aircraft are designed to a weight "how heavy can this part be". That's the first starting point when comparing a Jabiru/Tecnam to a 150 for me.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

The maintenance standards of RA-Aus aircraft are probably the most relaxed area. Word is that a flying school recently had its entire fleet of RA-Aus aircraft grounded on inspection by CASA for being unairworthy. They'd been merrily training students in one aircraft with an engine 1,000 hours overdue i'm told. Whilst this could happen in GA it's almost impossible with the checks and strict liability provisions on LAME's.

The problem for the good operators is how can you compete when the bad guys are undercutting you by not maintaining their aircraft properly.

 

This is core problem with self regulation for an industry, it rewards crooks and punishes honest players.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Volksy. Thats an interesting point of view. Ill take a 5 year old tecnam over a 50 year old 152 any day. You are correct, there are dodgy operators out there, and Im sorry you have been exposed to one. But generally the RAA runs a tight ship. I can tell you this from first hand experience. And GA is certainly no garuntee of either maintenance or training standards. If theres one 'generisation' id like to see dead and buried its that one.

 

The same 'buyer' beware rules apply to all flight training regardless of the tail signs.

 

 

[joeyo68]

Hi AZNA,

 

I see you are from Melbourne. Where do you fly from? If it is Moorabbin, then you might save some money by going to a regional airport like Lylidale, Coldstream or Tyabb. Rates are usually cheaper and you get into the training area quicker. They usually have schools with RAA aircraft also.

 

Last year I got back into flying after a 10year break and went down the RAA route, then completed a GA AFR to get my cross country back. Now I can fly either, usually RAA for local fun flights, and jump into a GA aircraft if I want a bit more speed for cross country. Helps manage the cost

 

BTW, I fly out of Tyabb, and the rates are pretty good.

 

I agree with most of the posters here, finish your GFPT.

 

Good luck with it.

 

Cheers,

 

Joe

 

 

[503]

I did the gfpt flew around for a while,then went ppc's ,never looked back,no point flying to bumf-ck then walking to town ,take your flying with you ,cheapest low and slow cant beat it,most relaxing way to fly,and can still fly a Cessna anytime I've got to much money...not many hrs in a 172 buys a ppc

 

 

[Bandit12]

If it is Moorabbin, then you might save some money by going to a regional airport like Lylidale, Coldstream or Tyabb.

Couldn't agree more, if you have a bad run you can spend 20 minutes of your hour driving around at Moorabbin before you can call it "flying". I've had much better runs than that many times, but it hurts when you get a long taxi to the southern end, wait for traffic and then do most of it in reverse to get back.

 

 

[Keenaviator]

Or Tyabb or Latrobe Valley where both RAA and GA operations are covered. No wasted time on the ground either.