Sky High Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Thanks Maj, Highlander would be at the top of the list if I was flush with the dinero's... Hey Maj, this is sky High, Im looking for a pilot to fly my taildragger Highlander around the sunshine coast for a week or so if you know anyone I'd really appreciate if you could let me know. Cheers Sky High Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky High Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 I don't think that you should make a "thing" of "easy to fly" aircraft. Not one of the recreational aircraft is particularly more difficult to fly than another. The tail draggers are pertinently more difficult to take-off and land than the others, AND THAT'S WHY I recommend that you start your training on a tail-wheel. If you can fly a tail-dragger, you won't have a problem flying anything else, ever. Even recreational flying requires a lot of skill and you will be "more skilled" than the pilot that has been trained on a Bantam that doesn,t even require a IAS indicator on approach. I had experienced co-pilots in the right hand seat and they only use their feet for taxing and breaking. A friend of mine is on crutches for more than a year now because his feet was inactive during a stall. Pilots that haven't flown tail-wheels, (or choppers) has got no nerve connection between their brains and feet while flying, over and out. Hey HansK, this is sky High, Im looking for a pilot to fly my taildragger Highlander around the sunshine coast for a week or so if you know anyone I'd really appreciate if you could let me know. Cheers Sky High Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxworker Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Yep, the Gazelle is insanely easy to land and take off in. The 'dragger is dead simple to actually fly, it's just that some people found it pretty twitchy to land, I used to love it because if you three pointed well you could pull up in such a short roll. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansK Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Sorry Hey HansK, this is sky High, Im looking for a pilot to fly my taildragger Highlander around the sunshine coast for a week or so if you know anyone I'd really appreciate if you could let me know.Cheers Sky High Sorry Mate, can't help U on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 As a general rule I DO NOT recommend learning to fly on a tail-dragger. If, however, the student understands and is prepared to accept the extra challenge (and probably longer training time) then go for it! DWF Hi Don,. . . . if you don't mention the difference between tail and nosewheel U/C, then I venture to suggest that most new students would not notice. They would simply do what is neccessary to please the instructor and keep up with the excercises. I think that there is far too much emphasis on the difference between the variants, whereas when I ( and probably you also ) learned to fly, both types were about, but the instructors never differentiated,. . . .you just went up in whatever was available on the line at the time. No "Bogeyman" status was ever attributed to tailwheels back then, so why now I wonder. . . .? I'd hate to think that this might be anything to do with "Dumbing down" or otherwise trying to make things easier for an ab initio pilot,. . . . ? personally, notwithstanding crosswind handling techniques being slightly different in some cases,. . . I never noticed much difference throughout my training. . . . Kind regards Phil 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 Your training was probably like mine, Phil and happened a long time ago. You just jumped out of one into the other and thought nothing of it. Some U/L taildraggers are pretty directionally challenging due to things like design (small rudders) set up of tailwheel geometry, positioning of mainwheels re Cof G. In the air they FLY the same of course but landing them is a different matter. I don't know about you, but If I jumped into a C-180 not having flown one for a while, my first few landings would be interesting to watch. Plenty of U/L's are more difficult to land than a C-180. nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalman Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 I found the weight of the controls the biggest challenge going from an UL to an older plane , I'd done a heap of time in a eurofox and then jumped into a Tigermoth , It felt like the rudder lock was still on, after a few circuits I thought my bloody legs were going to give out , haven't been in a Cessna taildragger for ages ,would be interesting to see how long it took to get a feel for it again, Matty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Your training was probably like mine, Phil and happened a long time ago. You just jumped out of one into the other and thought nothing of it. Some U/L taildraggers are pretty directionally challenging due to things like design (small rudders) set up of tailwheel geometry, positioning of mainwheels re Cof G. In the air they FLY the same of course but landing them is a different matter. I don't know about you, but If I jumped into a C-180 not having flown one for a while, my first few landings would be interesting to watch. Plenty of U/L's are more difficult to land than a C-180. nev Oh, Hey,. . . . I should have stuck that in as well,. . . .!!! OF COURSE,. . .lighter airframes are going to be affected somewhat more by the crosswind effect ( taildragggers) and I wouldn't want to decry this since it is all part of general physics ,. . . . ie, comparing the DHC Chipmunks and C120 / 140 / and 180 / DC3 types I flew in the early days, cannot realistically be compared to,. . .say a Kitfox,. . .which is, of course a far lighter airframe and will, quite happily groundloop if you ain't quick enough with he fancy footwork, or let a swing go too far. . . . the newer super lightweight things just don't have the mass / inertia to allow sufficient time for a slack driver to assess what is happening and apply the appropriate control input to prevent the situation from becoming pear shaped. . . . . . it happens rather quickly, and I really ought to have addressed this when comparing thrusters and other lightweight taildraggers you may have in OZ that I'm unaware of. . . . I HAVE had some interesting moments with Denney Kitfox Mk II, III, and 1V. . . . . ( Lightweight, low inertia appliances. . . . ) at the end of the day,. . . the centre of gravity on a tailwheel aeroplane is BEHIND he mainwheels, SO. . . . the back end is always trying to overtake the front end, and the natural tendency is for it to diverge, which is an interesting game for the driver.. . . a nosedrafgger of course, tends to "want" to run straight, due to the wheel configuration. . . . . . I really ought to have been somewhat more erudite in my reply to that post. . . . . . Sorry. ( skulks off into the woods grumbling. . . .) HOWEVER,. . . .I stand by what I said in my earlier post responding to Don. . . If an ab-initio pilot is taught to fly using a super you beaut lightweight taildragger,. . . . . .etc. . . .etc. . . . I don't hold with the view ( others seeem to have, that it is going to make him a better pilot than someone who learned on a nosedragger though. . . . . . . . they have their own particular traits and peculiarities don't they ? ? ? . . . . . Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 There are some interesting aspects of some of the earlier"Business Class" tailwheelers (Miles and Percivals) where keeping the stick right back and having the Tailwheel steering mechanism do the work because the rudder is shielded was the technique. High up biplanes used to turn downwind when the upperwing got too much lift. (Double decker bus principle.). The saving grace was the all over field, and you just didn't fly if the wind was strong. In some places Like New Zealand and some parts of Australia, lately the wind never ceases. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrZoos Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Learning to fly in something hard to fly does not make you a better pilot in any way shape or form. All it does is make you a better pilot in that particular type of aircraft, and even then, maybe not as good as someone who learned with better teaching and learning procedures.. In addition it delays the learning process, increases frustration and fatigue, reduces enjoyment and in some cases forces people to walk away. Proper teaching and instructions is about building confidence and enjoyment first and foremost, so that a person wants to continue learning and then its about reptition of the correct technique, not repetition of the wrong techniques. To develop muscle memory takes time and it takes a taxing toll on a persons concentration. Flying like any skill is best taught by breaking the skill down into manageable tasks and teaching one task repetatively after the other. In football aka soccer its easy to break it down to just one part of one skill at a time because we can just stick a pile of balls next to the learner. Unfortunately in flying the most difficult part (landing) has about 40 things going on at once. But a good trainer knows how to isolate those skills into manageable tasks for the learner. Sorry but as an educator in my field and with a masters in education and training in my field, trying to teach anyone using the most difficult method eg a tail dragger is just far far far from best practice. It might have been used years ago and it still might be used in isolated cases but it is not the way anyone should choose to teach something as complex as flying. In my limited flying experience i have been in the cockpit with several pilots and several trainers. After a lesson with one that wanted to "challenge me" and give me tasks that where too hard , i came home frustrated, angry, with a total waste of money and my flying skills went backwards, not to mention my enjoyment and confidence was destroyed. Another instructor broke things down properly, even flying the aircraft half the length of the runway at low level so that i could practice feet only during the critical moment of matching aircraft to ground in a crosswind. IT was brilliant brilliant brilliant. He broke the most difficult part of flying, and the most difficult part of that part of flying into a manageable skill that allowed me to practice it within my limits , and repeat repeat repeat. Thats what teaching flying is about. There in my experience are far far tooo many old school ex this an that pilots that can fly the pants of a kangaroo, but my god some of them can not teach flying because they dont know how to break it down and make it easy, fun and manageable. And in my opinion putting them in a difficult aircraft is mistake number 1.There is a reason they call an aircraft a trainer and thats because its supposed to be good for training. Putting someone in a tail dragger to learn to fly is like handing a trainee surgeon a knife , tying one hand behind his back and asking him to perfrom a tripple bypass in the dark, but saying dont worry i will be here if you are about to have an accident. It might work and that student will be fully preped to operate in difficult conditions, but its the wrong way to help that student learn properly and its unfair to that student to expect that much so soon. And it doesnt make that student a good foot surgeon, just because he learnt the hardest operation first. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 A good trainer should behave predictably and respond to inputs of the controls conventionally. It should not have any identifiable VICES, or bad characteristics. It also needs to be somewhat robust, by nature of the job it is performing and have a fair bit of control authority. No plane should be difficult to fly as such. A tailwheel plane is the same as any other till the ground becomes a factor. Rolling along the ground the plane is directionally UNSTABLE. This means a turn tends to exaggerate itself, because the wheels are forward of the centre of gravity. The T/W v/s tricycle is a bit of a no brainer as most pilots don't want it and they are in short supply in any case. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrZoos Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 A good trainer should behave predictably and respond to inputs of the controls conventionally. It should not have any identifiable VICES, or bad characteristics. It also needs to be somewhat robust, by nature of the job it is performing and have a fair bit of control authority.No plane should be difficult to fly as such. A tailwheel plane is the same as any other till the ground becomes a factor. Rolling along the ground the plane is directionally UNSTABLE. This means a turn tends to exaggerate itself, because the wheels are forward of the centre of gravity. The T/W v/s tricycle is a bit of a no brainer as most pilots don't want it and they are in short supply in any case. Nev Yep and given matching an aircraft is the most difficult aspect of flying , this is exactly why a taildragger should not be used for this aspect of flying until the trainee can competently handle matching the ground to an easier aircraft to do so, ie a trike/wheelbaroow/whatever anyone calls it. Once they master that and feel comfortable with that by al means introduce a tail dragger, but for the students sake and enjoyment dont teach someone in it and kid yourself its a good way to teach, before they know how to match an easier aricraft to the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth lacey Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 seems to me that there are a lot of "unreal men out there" they dont fly taildraggers cheers Gareth 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 This tailwheel question usually results in some animosity emerging, which is unfortunate. The choice is there for the individual to make for reasons that apply for the owner to assess. No one forces anyone to do what they don't want to do. I personally would not display "real Men fly WHATEVER's" on my plane or trailer, because it is a silly statement, pandering to concepts that are BS. anyhow and there is no need for a "divide" on such issues. I like discussing the elements of it but when it gets to the stage that it can be suggested that you are a non progressive primitive, or such stuck, in a rut in the road of progress ( My words but you get the drift) You won't be surprised if I don't agree, I hope. Nev 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffd Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 The Savannah is the easiest to fly by far I think. Its crosswind component is listed as 27 knots from memory Hello there Savannah owner i have seen that aircraft on the internet and am wondering your opinion on it ,i have a lot of training to go b 4 i think about my own aircraft however they do look nice especially the S model. I actually live at Laidley Heights and do my training at Coominya Flight Training and like i said i am a ways from my own aircraft but like to plan ahead,well ahead haha.Anyways hope to hear your opinions and although i cant fly to aircraft events yet i can still drive so am hoping to get to as many as i can.Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballpoint 246niner Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Hey Maj, this is sky High, Im looking for a pilot to fly my taildragger Highlander around the sunshine coast for a week or so if you know anyone I'd really appreciate if you could let me know.Cheers Sky High Nice to meet you today Sky high, hope your flight went well, give me a yell anytime you want to fly around home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Long time between watering holes with that one. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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